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Admiral Xzar
Faen
(8/8/03 3:20 am)
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Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
next map, next thread

8/11/03 4:40 am C96 minor changes
8/12/03 9:23 am demarked minor things
8/15/03 7:44 am added areas 99 and 101
8/16/03 8:44 am added areas 104 and 105; Cordo added area 102

Edited by: Admiral Xzar at: 8/16/03 8:45 am
Admiral Xzar
Faen
(8/8/03 5:07 am)
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Re: Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
C 96

Quote:
Page 157
Blade Spirit: Medium-size undead (incorporeal); HD 9d12; hp 58; Init +8; Spd 40 ft., fly 80 ft. (good); AC 16, touch 16, flat-footed 14; Base Atk +4; Grp --; Atk +8 melee (1d4, incorporeal touch); Full Atk same; SA Animate weapons; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., +2 turn resistance, undead traits, incorporeal; AL LE; SV Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +8; Str --, Dex 18, Con --, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 15.

Skills and Feats: Hide +16, Intimidate +14, Listen +15, Search +14, Spot +15, Survival +7; Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative.

Animate Weapons (Sp): A blade spirit can animate up to six slashing weapons, and it is always encountered with 1d6+1 such weapons of masterwork quality. These fully corporeal weapons can move up to 15 feet away from the spirit, attacking with a +11 bonus.
Weapon Domination (Sp): As a standard action, a blade spirit can dominate nearby slashing weapons. Any character holding a slashing weapon within 20 feet of the blade spirit must make a Will save (DC 16) or make an attack upon himself or herself with that weapon (this doesn`t count against the character`s normal number of attacks).
Weapon Immunity: A blade spirit is immune to all damage inflicted by slashing weapons, no matter how magical, although associated damage is inflicted normally (for example, the 1d6 points of fire damage from a flaming sword).
Undead Traits: Immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, diseases, and death effects. Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, or death from massive damage.
Incorporeal: Can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons and spells, spell-like abilities or supernatural abilities, with a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source. Can pass through 5 feet wide solid objects at will, and own attacks pass through armor. A blade spirit always move silently.

Typical location in area 96. (page 68)

Because creatures gain feats the same way like players, this meant for the spirit loss of one feat. i deleted Alertness, because he gains additional skillpoints and compensates the loss.

Also Intuit Direction is deleted in 3.5


Edited by: Admiral Xzar at: 8/12/03 9:23 am
Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/9/03 8:36 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
"Don`t know how we handle the weapon immunity... i added damage reduction, but thsi isn`t as good as the old immunity"

Because this is a special ability of a custom monster, you should not change it. Just leave it as printed in the module, total immunity to slashing weapons (but not the associated damage).

Also, incorporeal beings have no grapple ability. It should be listed as --.

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(8/9/03 5:28 pm)
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Re: Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
There's an interesting issue with one of Tarren's magic items. I'll be interested to see suggestions.

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/14/03 6:59 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
Besides his periapt gaing power and going up from 4000gp to 27000gp, his potion of neutralize poison is illegal (being a 4th level spell). Also, I believe the poison potion is higher priced (now at 5000gp). This is not the only case of higher priced items, though. Raise dead scrolls have similarly skyrocketed. I would change the neutralize poison to delay poison, but leave the periapt alone. You can include a orange note about the price, though, so that newer DM's are aware of the difference in treasure.

The bigger change IMO will be Kiibo, who can no longer be a dire bear.

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(8/14/03 9:14 pm)
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Re: Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
I'm going to ret-con Kiibo for my campaign. One approach would be rather than have Kiibo be a straight up animal companion, rather have him be a creature that Kiibo was lucky enough to charm and befriend somehow along the way.

Yes it isn't the only case of higher priced items, but it is the most significant increase that I am aware of. The delta is +23,000gp! Especially considering treasure levels around party level 7 to 8 this is huge and could throw things out of whack. In my campaign I'll probably keep the old effects *and* the old price.

Yes other things have gone up, but even raise dead scrolls have only gone up by +4,000gp, and there it is unlikely the players will be selling them at all, but rather saving them for a rainy day.

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(8/15/03 5:34 am)
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ezSupporter
Periapt
Using the old effects is okay, but I suggest you rename the item periapt of poison resistance so there is no confusion down the road. Just make it a 'custom' item that requires delay poison instead of neutralize poison. That's the reason the item changed because of the huge difference in the spell.

Admiral Xzar
Faen
(8/15/03 7:39 am)
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C 99
C 99

Quote:
Page 69 C99
...(see Dungeon Master`s Guide page 304.


Quote:
Page 69 C99
Destrachans (2): hp 58 and 66; see Monster Manual page 49.

Admiral Xzar
Faen
(8/15/03 7:44 am)
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Re: Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
C 101

Quote:
Page 70 C101
Destrachan: hp 60; see Monster Manual page 49.

smetzger
Faen
(8/15/03 8:15 am)
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Re: Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
That is a very considerable change in price. I would suggest pricing a new magic item with the new rules and with the old effect.

Call it say periapt of protection from poison. I'm not good at pricing magic-items so I'll post on the EN World Rules page and see what people come up with.

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(8/15/03 8:43 pm)
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Re: Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
Admiral have you already worked on Tarren? If not I'll probably work on him today as my players may encounter him and his bear tomorrow.

Admiral Xzar
Faen
(8/16/03 12:26 am)
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Re: Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren Conversion [3.5]
no... if you want him, you can do him...

Xzar

Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(8/16/03 5:27 am)
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Tarren
Quote:
Page 176
Tarren: Male human Drd8; CR 8, Medium-size humanoid (human); HD 8d8; hp 35; Init +2; Spd 30 ft.; AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14; Base Atk +6; Grp +5; Atk +6 melee (1d6-1/18-20, masterwork scimitar); Full Atk +6/+1 melee (1d6-1, masterwork scimitar); SQ Animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy, woodland stride, trackless step, resist nature's lure, wild shape (large, 3/day); AL NE; SV Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +8; Str 9, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 17.

Skills and Feats: Diplomacy +14, Handle Animal +14, Heal +15, Knowledge (nature) +12, Profession (herbalist) +13, Survival +13; Brew Potion, Dodge, Lightning Reflexes, Track.

Spells Prepared (6/5/4/3/2; save DC 12 +spell level): 0-create water, detect magic, guidance, know direction, light, resistance; 1st-calm animals, cure light wounds, endure elements, magic fang, pass without trace; 2nd-barkskin, flame blade, heat metal, bear's endurance; 3rd-cure moderate wounds, greater magic fang, protection from energy; 4th-dispel magic, flame strike.

Possessions: +2 leather armor, periapt of proof against poison, potion of cure light wounds, potion of lesser restoration, potion of neutralize poison, potion of poison, masterwork scimitar.

Tarren is typically found in his fungi grove, area 102 of the CRM. (page 70)

Speak with animals dropped to 1st level so bear's endurance (newly available to druids) is substituted in.

Animal Empathy is no longer a skill in 3.5e. Tarren's ranks in Animal Empathy have been moved to Diplomacy, now a Druid class skill, which is used together with the wild empathy class ability to achieve the same ends.


Tarren has a range attack modifier listed in his original stat block but no damage or weapon afterwards. Also no ranged weapons were listed in his inventory, so I have removed the reference from the stat block. Alternatively a light crossbow can be added but it is doubtful Tarren will use it with his spell casting taking priority.

The Periapt of Proof against Poison's effect has changed from a +4 luck bonus on saves versus poison to complete invulnerability to poison. Along with this, its price has increased considerably from 4000 gp to 27,000gp. Suggestions welcome!

DMs may want to consider switching Tarren's +2 leather armor (4160gp) for +1 Dragonhide Plate (4300gp and not available in 3.0). In that case Tarren's AC will improve to 20, touch 11, flat-footed 19 and his move will change to 20'.

Tarren can no longer have Kiibo as an animal companion as per the 3.5e animal companion rules. There are several options to deal with this: 1) Kiibo is no longer a formal animal companion, but merely an animal Tarren befriended and trained, 2) Kiibo is allowed to remain an animal companion as an exception (based perhaps on the old 3.0 rules that non-adventuring Druids can have more powerful companions or perhaps on Tarren's extraordinary charisma and ability in wild empathy), 3) change Kiibo to a brown bear.

Edited by: Cordo Crowfoot at: 8/16/03 10:19 am
Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(8/16/03 5:28 am)
Reply
Kiibo
Quote:
Kiibo: Dire Bear, hp 113; see Monster Manual pg. 63.

Edited by: Cordo Crowfoot at: 8/16/03 5:46 am
Admiral Xzar
Faen
(8/16/03 8:44 am)
Reply
C 104 and C 105
ok, last two rooms of this map...

Quote:
Page 70 C104
Giant Ant Workers (6): hp 10, 9, 10, 7, 13, 11; see Monster Manual page 284.


Quote:
Page 71 C105
Giant Ant Workers (4): hp 10, 8, 12, 9; see Monster Manual page 284.
Giant Ant Soldiers (4): hp 11, 11, 14, 9; see Monster Manual page 284.

Admiral Xzar
Faen
(8/16/03 9:04 am)
Reply
Re: C 104 and C 105

TARREN

protection from energy should be partially lime because of name change from elements to energy

endure elements should be lime because its effect changes significantly in 3.5

Xzar

Edited by: Admiral Xzar at: 8/16/03 9:05 am
ZansForCans 
Litorian
(9/24/03 8:37 pm)
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Re: Blade Spirit
I think it's OK to leave the Blade Spirit's feats as-is. In 3.0 it only got 3 from HD progression and the rest were bonus feats (kind of like the wraith). In 3.5, it would only have one bonus feat if we keep all of the originals.

Skills: I think Listen and Spot are one too high. They should have a max rank of 12 and the Wis +2 brings them up to 14, unless I'm leaving something else out. Also, I think Survival can be maxed out as well. It gets 6 x 12 points to spend, so should max out all 6 skills at 12, I think. This would make them all +14 except for Hide +16. Listen and Spot go to +16 as well if Alertness is restored again. I might be missing something here, so it's worth another check from someone...


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ZansForCans 
Litorian
(9/24/03 9:22 pm)
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Re: Tarren
Tarren now gets a +2 synergy bonus to Knowledge (nature) from Survival, bringing it up to +14. Also, technically, he can have a Ride +4 listed from the synergy with Handle Animal (and with Ride untrained).

I added the suggestion to rename the periapt. It seems the best solution to me as well:

Quote:
The periapt of proof against poison's effect has changed from a +4 luck bonus on saves versus poison to complete invulnerability to poison. Along with this, its price has increased considerably from 4,000 gp to 27,000 gp. Our best suggestion is to keep Tarren’s item’s function and price the same as v3.0 and create a new name for it: periapt of poison resistance. The price for such an item is not clearly defined in v3.5 since “Save bonus (limited)” is no longer in the magic item pricing table. 4,000 gp is probably a lower limit with 8,000 gp being reasonable as a high limit since the bonus being applied is of type luck, not resistance. This bonus will stack with that more common bonus type. See the v3.5 Table 7-33: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values, DMG pg. 285 or SRD. The prerequisite spell for this item should probably be changed to delay poison.


Further edit: I also missed that the nature sense druid ability is a direct +2 bonus to Knowledge (nature) and Survival. So the final (I hope) skills should be +16 and +15, respectively.

I also added a description for Wild Empathy since it involves a calculation. I don't think we have to include the others, but I've never been perfectly clear what the official (a la WotC) discriminating bit is for the breakout descriptions of SA/SQ.


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Edited by: ZansForCans  at: 9/25/03 9:43 pm
ZansForCans 
Dynama
(9/25/03 9:37 pm)
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Kiibo & more...
I moved Cordo's comment about Kiibo out of Tarren's block and into the main text section since it seems to fit better there. I added specifics for using the Brown Bear, since it's the most 'legal' v3.5 option.

The whole bit for C102 now looks like this:

Quote:
Tarren is listed here as having hide armor, but his stat block says leather. Changes for hide are provided in his stat block in Appendix 3 below.

"Kiibo: Dire Bear, hp 113; see Monster Manual page 63."

Tarren can no longer have Kiibo as an animal companion as per the v3.5 animal companion rules. There are several options to deal with this:

  1. Kiibo is no longer a formal animal companion, but merely an animal Tarren befriended and trained.

    Kiibo can learn up to six tricks (Int 2), and the Hunting package (see PHB, pg. 75) seems appropriate for them.

  2. Change Kiibo to a brown bear. In this case, Kiibo’s entry changes to:

    "Kiibo: Brown Bear, hp 55; see Monster Manual page 269."

    As above, this Kiibo could have the Hunting package. He also has one bonus trick (suggestion: Defend), has a link to Tarren, and may share spells with him. See the Player’s Handbook, page 36.

  3. Kiibo is allowed to remain an animal companion as an exception (based perhaps on the old v3.0 rules that non-adventuring druids can have more powerful companions or perhaps on Tarren's extraordinary charisma and ability in wild empathy).


Under Tactics, three of the four spells listed are not on Tarren’s prepared list (only dispel magic). Although in v3.5 he can spontaneously cast the nature’s ally series of spells.

Under Treasure, strike “(or has the druid ability nature sense)”. In v3.5, nature sense gives a +2 bonus to Knowledge (nature) and Survival checks and does not provide any information automatically.


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ZansForCans 
Dynama
(9/25/03 9:41 pm)
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Re: Kiibo & more...
Map F (C95-105) Destrachan, Tarren has been added


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