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Author
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Comment
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Daeinar
Faen
(9/9/03 1:28 pm)
Reply
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Re: 3.5: Map A, C1-15, Main Gate
Now, the Merclar conversion is a bit sloppy.
His hit dice changed to d8.
His favored enemies should +4/+2.
There should be a note explaining Combat Style (Ex).
Same for Wild Empathy (Ex).
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 Infiniti2000
Verrik
(9/9/03 8:02 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: Howlers...
"I2k, before I get too far here, what is the lime text in the howler stats denote changed against? Is it Monte's advanced howler or the MM base howler?"
It's a difference from the MM base howler.
"Does anyone have a problem with CC's comment above that we list the equivalent CR howler first? That's seems right to me as well since it's more in line with his original."
I completely agree.
"Does anyone have a problem listing the advanced howlers in the stat block section of the conversion doc with the NPCs even though there is no corresponding block in the original?"
Yes, all the stat blocks should be together. Puting them in-line will be confusing and future DM's will not find them as easily. It'll be the "What room is the howler in again?" question to find the howler stat block.
"The CR 5 howler's Fort should be bumped up to +9 from the increased Con."
I fixed it in this thread, though I'm sure you've fixed in the real doc anyway. 
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ZansForCans 
Litorian
(9/10/03 11:37 am)
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Re: Howlers...
"I fixed it in this thread, though I'm sure you've fixed in the real doc anyway."
Hehe! Actually I hadn't had time to paste it in at the time...
Here are a few more comments/questions:
* Huge howler Fort should be +13... same reason, I think, the Con increase.
* Huge howler howl DC should be 15 (HD +6, Cha -1).
* Shouldn't the Huge howler bite damage be 4d8, not 6d6? The progression in the SRD under the feat goes 2d8->3d8 (Huge)->4d8 (Improved), but I didn't double check against the generic weapon progression listed... somewhere else...
* The CR's both look one higher than what I would have thought with just a +3 and +6 HD increase. The table says +1/2HD for an outsider. Did you add one more to each for another reason? The Ability Focus perhaps? These are slightly subjective anyway, so it's not a big deal to me--it's better to be higher than lower, IMHO.
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arcane12
Faen
(9/10/03 12:27 pm)
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Re: Howlers...
I see your mistake with the ranks on Mereclar: you did not include his eyes if the eagle:
heal +5 4 ranks +1 wis
hide +5 2 ranks +3 dex
listen +10 8 ranks +1 wis +1 racial
Move silently +5 2 ranks +3 dex
Search +1 0 ranks +1 racial
Spot +15 8 ranks +1 wis +1 racial +5 eyes
Survival +9 8 ranks +1 wis
as a suggestion since Mereclar has 4 ranks in heal, 2 in hide and move silently maybe his remaining left over could raise it to 8 in heal 4 in move silently and 4 in hide? (or maybe a few ranks in ride - 8 perhaps? that would give him a total of +6 after the -5 for riding a howler)
Weapon finesse now applies to all aplicable weapons (you only need to buy it once). Mereclar would not be able to make two attacks with a single normal attack (eg. the atk: +6... group) so he should be listed with his non- two weapon fighting sinlg attack at +8 (or maybe he would to sacrafice that 2 points of average damage for a +1 to hit with the short sword?)
--edit--
just spotted another thing - Terrenygit's stech should be at DC 14. It is only calculated by Trog HD (that's what I was told and I agree) Endurace is now Bear's endurance, random action is now lesser confusion. His will save was correct before - insanity lowers it by one.
skil point wise he should be:
Hide: 5 (trog) + 4 (racial) +4 (optional racial) -8 (armor)
Listen: 5 (trog) + 2 (wis)
Concentration: 5 (Clr) + 3 (con)
Know (religon): 5 + 0
His trog skill points went up when his int went to 11, but this had not been factored in initially. Before he had 3 ranks in listen, and 2 in hide (std trog skills)
sorry for sticking my nose in its big like a trolls, hard not too : --- ]
Edited by: arcane12 at: 9/10/03 6:12 pm
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smetzger
Faen
(9/11/03 9:08 am)
Reply
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Mereclaw
Ok so I updated Mereclaw. Thanks for the double checks guys.
9/13 changed Terengyt
Edited by: smetzger at: 9/12/03 10:56 am
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Infiniti2000
Verrik
(9/11/03 8:34 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: Howlers...
"Huge howler Fort should be +13... same reason, I think, the Con increase."
Okay, fixed.
"Huge howler howl DC should be 15 (HD +6, Cha -1)."
Okay, fixed. Though the howl is a useless ability in this case (like the party will hang around the Main Gate for an hour).
"Shouldn't the Huge howler bite damage be 4d8, not 6d6?"
No, Table 4-3 on pg. 291 of the MM specifically says that 2d8 (base howler) becomes 3d8 upon becoming Huge. Thanks to Improved Natural Attack this increases by the same means where each 1d8 becomes 2d6, thus 6d6.
"The CR's both look one higher than ..."
I added one for good measure. No, just kidding. I added one due to the "Size increased to Large or larger".
Thanks for checking them!
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ZansForCans
Litorian
(9/11/03 9:23 pm)
Reply
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Re: Howlers...
Quote:
No, Table 4-3 on pg. 291 of the MM specifically says that 2d8 (base howler) becomes 3d8 upon becoming Huge. Thanks to Improved Natural Attack this increases by the same means where each 1d8 becomes 2d6, thus 6d6
I only have the SRD on hand right now, but the Improved Natural Attack feat there has a longer listing of weapon upgrades:
"1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8."
which is where I was pulling my comment from.
Quote:
I added one due to the "Size increased to Large or larger".
Oh, OK. I read that one the first time and thought it only meant the first transition past Medium, which the base howler is already at. But reading the expanded description below the table, I think it's a good idea for the Huge howler with it's increased reach. But since the 9 HD howler isn't changing size, does this still apply?
Quote:
I added one for good measure.
Hey, after running the 9 HD and reading about all the other combats with the various ones, I'm all for it 
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Infiniti2000
Verrik
(9/12/03 5:40 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: Howlers...
"1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8."
Well, when you get the chance, check out the MM. Either way is fine for me. I ran the 12HD 3.5 howler as a skeleton and it was real nasty. 4d8 is only an average 3hp less, but it might be the difference between life and death for a PC.
"But since the 9 HD howler isn't changing size, does this still apply?"
It is also losing a HD (+1 per 2HD and he gains 3HD) as far as CR calculations are concerned. In this case, it is worth the extra CR. I think the 9HD howler is worth CR 5. By the way, I thought of making it 10HD, but I think that is the breakpoint for Huge; can't remember right now though.
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ZansForCans
Litorian
(9/13/03 7:23 pm)
Reply
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Wormspike
I don't think Wormspike has spent his 2 War skill points. If they get put into Climb like Monte does in the original, I think he comes in at +7: +5 racial (includes the armor) + 2 War ranks.
Edit: Also, his CR is up by one due to the increase in ogre CR from 2 to 3 (so his is now 4).
(Re: Huge Howler... I2k, I'm out of town, so I'll check out the book early next week...)
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info :: demoEdited by: ZansForCans at: 9/14/03 9:21 pm
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ZansForCans
Litorian
(9/13/03 9:19 pm)
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Mereclar
I made some small changes when including Mereclar.
- I highlighted his ranged attack since it's new and made a note about the MW arrows in the comment section. I also highlighted his new Ref save.
- It didn't look like the extra 5 skill points had been added back in like arcane12 suggests above, so I used the recommendation in that post.
- Noted that the errata needed to change Weapon Finesse to Weapon Focus to make the stat block come out right.
- Noted the lack of Ride in the comments section, as noted in the errata and by arcane12 above. Although, I don't think the -5 penalty applies since the MM explicitly mentions them being able to be ridden with training. I just noticed that there's no mention of the exotic saddle needed to ride it either in the adventure, but that's on the more minor side... Here's what I have:
Quote:
Finally, as listed he does not have Ride, so he probably wouldn't ride the howler into battle. Two suggestions: change Listen +10 to Listen +5 and add Ride +8 or put 8 of his new v3.5 skill points into Ride instead of Search, resulting in Search +1 and Ride +11.
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ZansForCans
Litorian
(9/14/03 9:35 pm)
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Re: Terrenygit
There's a note in the current errata that Terrenygit can't quite control all his closet zombies since his command limit is 5 HD and his animate limit is 10 HD (and zombies are 2 a piece). Now in v3.5, the animate limit is double at 20 HD (which matches Monte's comment about the limit of 10 now). So, with a successful turn check, he can snag all 12 now.
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smetzger
Faen
(9/15/03 7:30 am)
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Re: Terrenygit
Ooh, good catch Zans. I added it under the notes sction for Terry.
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ZansForCans
Litorian
(9/15/03 8:36 pm)
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Re: Howlers...
"Well, when you get the chance, check out the MM."
OK, I've checked it and find it's the same as the SRD, which beyond the myriad of serious editing mistakes, has been very welcome in v3.5 so far.
The feat on pg. 304 lists that same progression I noted in the SRD, which just extends that of the damage increases due to size on pg. 291. A 2d8 goes to 3d8 and then goes to 4d8.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that C1-15, Main Gate has been added.
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info :: demoEdited by: ZansForCans at: 9/15/03 8:38 pm
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smetzger
Faen
(9/16/03 12:36 pm)
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3.5 Map A Encounter.doc uploaded
Quote:
Oh, and I forgot to mention that C1-15, Main Gate has been added.
And with that I just uploaded the 3.5 Map A Encounter.doc to your site
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Krispieman
Ebon Hand Cultist
(3/3/04 7:28 am)
Reply
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Re: Howlers...
Sorry to butt in here, but I have a few comments about the advanced howler myself.
1st off, doesn't he get another stat point when he reaches 12 HD? AFAIK the PC's always do, and monsters follow the same rules. Personally I put it in Str for an extra bonus.
And I must say that I agree with ZansForCans about the improved natural attack. 3d8 would increase to 4d8, not 6d6.
just my 2 cp.
K-man 
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Admiral Xzar
Staj
(3/4/04 8:30 am)
Reply
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Re: Howlers...
yes, i`ve doublechecked it and you`re right, the huge howler would get an extra ability point...
hmm, it makes the hh even deadlier, if you put it in str...
Xzar
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ZansForCans
Oathstalker
(3/4/04 8:54 am)
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Re: Howlers...
I'll scan that beastie again before I put the next update out. Thanks!
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ZansForCans
Oathstalker
(3/4/04 9:49 pm)
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Re: Howlers...
Relevant new bits with Str 30 are:
Base Atk +12; Grapple +30; Atk +20 melee (4d8+10, bite); Full Atk +20 melee (4d8+10, bite) and +15 melee (1d8+5, 1d4 quills);
and
Climb +25
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