|
Author
|
Comment
|
domconnor
Faen
(9/1/03 2:15 am)
Reply
|
entry to the outer fane - confused
OK _ I must have missed something serious here, so Im after help.
My party have just crossed the air bridge and gotten to the air door. They have killed everyone they met and totally wiped out the crater ridge mines.
They have all the keys they found on their travels (including the lesser air key from Faschith).
However, the adventure states they can only get through the door with a Greater Air Key. So where is this? I can't see it in the adventure.
Have they missed something serious (or have I).
If they do need the Greater key (they certainly havent been blessed by anything) how the hell do they get in?
Really, really love to know the answer to this one - as I left them smarting from lightning bolts, desperately trying to use the lesser air key to get in.
Many thanks
Dom.
|
msherman
Giant
(9/1/03 4:19 am)
Reply
|
Re: entry to the outer fane - confused
It's in the sidebar on page 38, and on the same page in "Getting From The Mines To The Fanes". Essentially, to enter the Air Door, they need _two_ lesser keys of air, which they press together to fuse into the Greater key of air. It lasts as a greater key for 15 minutes, before coming apart into two lesser keys again.
BTW, while the book is a bit vague on this issue, the consensus seems to be that the lightning towers fire from their tips, not their entire length, so the lightning doesn't reach the bridges themselves; the towers are too tall. The only hassle that the party should get on the bridges is from arrow-shooting spider-eater riders. And, of course, if the tower sorcerers see the party fumbling with keys on the bridge, they'll warn the inhabitants of an ill-equipped visitor, which means they'll be ready on the other side of the door when it opens.
Edited by: msherman at: 9/1/03 5:22 am
|
domconnor
Faen
(9/1/03 4:58 am)
Reply
|
Re: entry to the outer fane - confused
superb !!!
Many, many thanks.
I've had the towers firing from their length, not the tip, so the group have been blasted quite a bit by them. They are now at the door, and obviously the sorcerer and spidereaters are well and truly forewarned.
They have no idea about the combination of the keys (as I said - they killed everyone they met) so it should make for an interesting time.
Dom.
|
 Infiniti2000
Verrik
(9/1/03 7:39 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
|
Re: entry to the outer fane - confused
My group is doing something similar, i.e. killing everyone they met and asking for no information. Do not offer them any help they are not entitled to, though, so let them struggle with it.
Btw, I'm with you in that I think the towers should be able to hit people on the bridges. It's not much of a defense system if it cannot protect the whole thing. I don't view it as merely air defense. I have it such that the guards are notified who is not blessed or does not have a greater (or master) key and have the option to fire the lightning. If one of the party members is so blessed or has a greater key, then the towers will not fire.
|
arcane12
Human
(9/1/03 2:35 pm)
Reply
|
Re: entry to the outer fane - confused
Yes, I also had the towers emit from any point on the tower as this seemed more like a worthwhile defence, and if they were only for air defence then why put them halfway up the walls? they would work better at pure air defence if they were placed at the top of the ridge, and even then, because of the 150 foot range, they would not full protect the area as the inner crate measures over 300 feet across, plus the distance from its location.
However if they were placed where they are, and could shoot from any part of their length THEN they become useful - they will shoot down unwary fliers (ones not flying high to avoid the towers range) and they offer another level of protection for the doors - and if you are meant to be coming through a door you will have been blessed by a greater key (and if you are a nice GM you may let a person holding the greater key count too) and therefore the towers will not shoot at you as it is descibed on page 106: "Anyone not blessed by a greater key ... is struck by a lightning bolt ... even if the intruders are otherwise undetected"
So in conclusion: due to the tower placement there is little to no protection for the inner fane for a wary intruder, and only if the towers can shoot from anywhere on their length do they actually help defend the inner fane from anything besides random birds and the occasional unprepared adventurer (yes I had a party who's Druid decided to investigate the crate in hawk form at 6th level and got blasted to death :/
-- edited for berevity and to add:
Another question that relates: what info do you get if you identify a lesser key?
Edited by: arcane12 at: 9/1/03 6:32 pm
|
domconnor
Faen
(9/2/03 3:10 am)
Reply
|
Re: entry to the outer fane - confused
Removed - due to error
Edited by: domconnor at: 9/2/03 3:20 am
|
domconnor
Faen
(9/2/03 3:18 am)
Reply
|
Re: entry to the outer fane - confused
Thanks for that. Its good to hear some others zapped the players while they were on the bridge. I thought I was being too hard on them for a minute there
(I have to agree ... it's not much of a defence if the bridges are out of range)
Anyway, this should be an hilarious session next week. They are NEVER going to figure that out, and a few sweeping attacks by the spider eaters and sorcerors should make things interesting.
I'll keep you informed
Dom
|
WarrenWright
Faen
(9/2/03 6:34 am)
Reply
|
However...
I remember D'Gran's description saying that he will escort anyone that has a greater key to the door himself, and only escorts them if they have the means to get past it....
I don't really see Monte intending the non-blessed D'Gran to get blasted every time he walks towards the door across the bridge...
The towers seem like an aerial defense to me, though my group hasn't dared approach the inner fane yet (except once by air, when they first got to the CRM - BLAST).
If they were placed on top of the inner ridge, instead of half way up, they'd be pretty damn conspicuous wouldn't they...so placing them halfway up seems like an intelligent plan to camouflage them.
Warren
|
Entropius
Faen
(9/2/03 7:56 am)
Reply
|
Lightning towers
IMC the towers can only fire from their tips, so no lightning on walkers. Maybe the targetting mechanism locks on to objects, and the "radar shadow" of the bridges confuses it? Maybe the designers didn't want their bridges getting blasted every time some rat walked by?
However, in exchange for this I've given the SER's a new trick. Each tower has one elven Sor1/Ftr1 SER, armed with a heavy crossbow; three of these are crossbows of frost. These guys all know, among other things, true strike, so they have incredible range with their crossbows. Hedrack was aware of the PC's soon after they arrived, when Fachish was killed over the Stalagos while trying to escape in gaseous form. (The SER's saw this.) So one of the sniper SER's has been posted high on the mountain over the North Gate, with instructions to shoot at any group of suspicious-looking people. (Until recently, that description meant "includes a satyr", since those are easy to identify at range.)
When the PC's actually try to cross the bridges, these SER's will snipe them something nasty if it comes to a fight. -2 per range increment? No biggie, when you've got +20 from true strike.
|
Gwyddno Maolan
Faen
(9/2/03 2:18 pm)
Reply
|
Re: entry to the outer fane - confused
Quote:
Another question that relates: what info do you get if you identify a lesser key?
Don't know if it agrees with the official answer, but what I prepared was identify on a lesser key just revealed that it could be combined with another lesser key of the same element to form a greater key. A greater key would then have three powers (open the appropriate door, be used to bless someone so they can open the appropriate door without a key, and combine with another greater key to form a master key), so under 3.0 only one power would be revealed should the PCs identify it. The master key only has one power, allowing access to the inner fane.
As events actually unfolded, my players used identify to figure out the powers of the first lesser key they found, then deduced that the key would be used to get into the outer fane and were ready to cross the first bridge they found after getting the two earth keys. I used a cryptic letter from Varachan and some NPC posturing to let them know they weren't quite ready yet and that it'd be a good idea to get at least two more lesser keys before trying the outer fane. This clued them in to the greater/master key combination early on, but also ensured they didn't get wiped by trying the outer fane at level 6 or 7, so it worked out OK. They haven't yet figured out how to bless someone with a greater key, nor much cared.
Gwyddno Aonaranach - Serene Master of Pain and... Forestry?!
Earedwyn Lanngaoth - Swashbuckler Extraordinaire
Last Warden Standing, Vae Victis! |
Infiniti2000
Verrik
(9/2/03 8:06 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
|
Re: entry to the outer fane - confused
IMO, a lesser key would be revealed as "opening doors in the area to which it was attuned", if identified in 3.0. In 3.5 it was also revealed that they could be combined to create a greater key. To me, the primary function is opening doors (thus the name key), not the combining to form a more powerful key, though that is probably the more common usage.
In neither version can you even identify a greater key because it only holds together for 15 minutes.
|
Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(9/2/03 9:46 pm)
Reply
|
Re: entry to the outer fane - confused
I think the towers are clearly placed for a single specific purpose, to stop people from flying into the blasted yard and/or right up to the Inner Fane. It clearly says that you should apply just enough damage to drive the players away, not kill them, and I feel sorry for players who have been mercilessly shot down without warning.
The doors themselves and patrols by the spider eaters do fine to prevent access through the doors.
All the true range of the tower stuff can easily be handwaved away by DMs... the players aren't going to pull out surveying tools and complain that the range of the towers is being exceeded, as long as you stick to your story on whether they can hit people crossing the bridges.
"They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came... They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits" China Mieville, Perdido Street Station |
arcane12
Human
(9/3/03 6:49 pm)
Reply
|
doors and towers
Thanks for the thoughts on the keys. Regarding the Towers only two of them are close enough to shoot to the bridges anyway, no matter where on their length the shots come from - the earth and water doors. I think it is useful for the towers to shoot at people on foot as an added deterant- it is quite easy for a party to wade in the south enterance and hit the water bridge early on- if the towers shoot it may persuade the party to go back (note: here my players thought they would be ok to take a hit or two and then would be through the door- but they did not have any water keys!)
A thought for the greater keys: Perhaps anyone within 20 feet of a greater key is counted as being blessed?
I guess D'Gran would be aware of more or less the exact range of the towers due to his flight and deduced that the tower closest the fire door is too far away (150ish feet horizontally 100+ down)
I read the outer fane section over a few times more, and it seems that Monte meant the towers to be a general deterant - make sure the party doesn't approach certain doom (outer and inner fanes) until they are ready (have kicked ass through 50%+ of the CRM and got level 10ish). I think if they were purely air defence they would have been placed further up? (and given more range to cover the entire yard)
I think the water and earth door could use lightning as a additional defence as the fire door doesn't need any more (CR 14 dragon!!) and the Air door has intelligent gardians but to get past the earth elemental you just need to wear the robes! and the earth temple is the easiest to get too, though due to the layout I would say the easist way to get in is the air door (invisible stalkers arent as hard to get past as a dragon, plus the temple is right next to a door). The other easy way is to take out the air and earth temples, and use the master key on the water door - requires least stomping to get the bit done. However if the party has lighning to worry about (and isn't keen on being blesses by an evil ritual) most of the doors become equally hard to get in... the fire door becomes more accessable except for D'Gran and the Dragon.
|
Cordo Crowfoot
Litorian
(9/3/03 7:30 pm)
Reply
|
Re: doors and towers
Yeah but if they have taken out two temples, fought off Hedrack's response to knowing the Outer Fane is now vulnerable, figured out both what they keys are and how to combine them into a master key, then I would argue they deserve to go in through the water door and don't necesarily need bolts of lightning raining down upon them to make it more "challenging". But YMMV and all that. Just an opinion.
|
Okay -- Your Turn
Email This To a Friend
Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies 
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies