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Eltern
Faen
(9/1/03 12:10 pm)
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Imix attacks
Can someone explain to me Imix's attack progression? +33/28/23/18/13/8?! Isn't the limit four?

Eltern

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(9/1/03 7:43 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Imix attacks
There was no such limit in 3.0, the available version when Monte wrote the adventure. The solar also got more than four attacks. The only limit was given in the Epic Level Handbook (non-core), and was written after the module. That explains it, anyway, but feel free to reduce the number of attacks.

msherman
Giant
(9/2/03 3:16 am)
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Re: Imix attacks
In the 3.5 conversion, he's been limited to 4 iterative attacks.

Killiak 
Litorian
(9/2/03 3:20 am)
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Re: Imix attacks
I can get 10 attacks out of a non-epic character :D

msherman
Giant
(9/2/03 3:26 am)
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Re: Imix attacks
Sure, it's possible to get many more than 4 attacks, but only 4 of them will be iterative primary attacks.

3 more for iterative secondary attacks with the TWF chain makes 7, where do you get 10 from (without extra arms and such)?

Killiak 
Litorian
(9/2/03 6:06 am)
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Re: Imix attacks
well. Using the Lasher PrC in 3.0:
1 from Haste
1 from Expert Tactician
1 from class ability

and yes; that stacks :D

Edited by: Killiak  at: 9/2/03 6:06 am
Eltern
Faen
(9/2/03 6:56 am)
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Re: Imix attacks
And I presume those are two different, four attacks for greatsword OR slam, not both at the same time?

Eltern

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(9/2/03 9:12 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: Imix attacks
It's four attacks with the greatsword. Natural attacks never use the iterative progression, so it would be two slams at most regardless.

Killiak, that is still only 7. Where's the other 3? You cannot use TWF with ranged weapons.

Killiak 
Litorian
(9/2/03 2:30 pm)
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Re: Imix attacks
It's an exotic weapon and it is treated as a ranged weapon for damage and attack.
U still keep it in your hand and therefor it is eligible for TWF

and if you can prove otherwise then I would gladly see a quote or a page number in DMG/PHB

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(9/2/03 8:02 pm)
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ezSupporter
Re: Imix attacks
Sorry, holdover brain fart from 3.0. 3.5 nicely cleared that up; you can indeed use ranged weapons with TWF. Not only that, but the whip is now a melee weapon, so kindly nevermind me. ;) I'm unfamiliar with some of those feats, so I'll just take your word for it.

Killiak 
Litorian
(9/2/03 11:03 pm)
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Re: Imix attacks
Well, you are partially right. In 3.0 it wasn't really allowed to do TWF with ranged weapons, though I can't find it in the books
My DM's said: "Bulldung, it works with a whip"
So I am happy :D

msherman
Giant
(9/3/03 3:29 am)
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Re: Imix attacks
As far as I'm concerned, using any splatbook feat with 3.5 core rules is iffy. So many of them got broken by the 3.5 changes, that they're all suspect.

But then, I never allowed any splatbooks in my game even when we were playing 3.0, so as I2K said, "nevermind me..."

Killiak 
Litorian
(9/3/03 8:43 am)
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Re: Imix attacks
Actually, they aren't 3.0 feats. Crack of Doom works like Flurry and since Haste is now changed the Lasher actually winds up with 9 atacks in 3.5
Only Expert Tactician is a feat, but it's even less broken in 3.5 because the "lose dex" thingies aren't changed

Maybe even less since I don't know if the Ring of Blinking still works in 3.5 (=> for Expert Tactician)

could be any DM
Faen
(9/4/03 5:14 am)
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Re: Imix attacks
Infiniti2000 wrote:

Quote:
Natural attacks never use the iterative progression, so it would be two slams at most regardless.


Not quite true. Elementals are one of the few creatures who get iterative progression on their slams. Since Imix is an elemental, I'd say he could use his slam iteratively. I'm not sure why he'd bother though considering how deadly he is with that sword.

Hmmm... I guess the sword could get sundered. Hey, anyone out there have their PC's sunder Imix's sword?

As for whether he gets both the slam and the sword, of course not. If inclined I'd let him do an either/or sword/slam at any iterative step, but I don't know if the rules would support that.

Infiniti2000
Verrik
(9/4/03 7:48 am)
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ezSupporter
Re: Imix attacks
"Not quite true. Elementals are one of the few creatures who get iterative progression on their slams."

I don't see that in the 3.5 SRD. From the Elder Fire Elemental, Full Attack: 2 slams +26 melee (2d8+6 plus 2d8 fire). His BAB is +18, which would otherwise be +18/+13/+8/+3, and obviously he does not get 4 attacks per round.

He doesn't get both the sword and the slam because the sword is a greatsword and he needs both hands to wield it.

could be any DM
Faen
(9/4/03 8:20 am)
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Re: Imix attacks
That must have been a change for 3.5, my answer was based on 3.0. I figured that was appropriate since those were the rules the module was written with.

Edit: added a "d" that was meant to be there that could change the tone of the post to some.

Edited by: could be any DM at: 9/5/03 6:25 am
KnightOfRound 
Human
(9/6/03 12:19 pm)
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Re: Imix attacks
Actually, I was just reading some of the articles posted at montecook.com, and apparently monte explicitly stated that Imix "broke the rules" for creation.

The article can be found here:
www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly20.html

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