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Andorax
Verrik
(9/10/03 6:58 am)
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WG4 as a Sidetrek
Others might also have some input here, but here's some basic ideas for what I've put together.

First off...what am I talking about? I'm talking about an old 1st edition module, WG4 "The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun". If you've seen it, you'll probably remember it...the only module I know of with a pale lavender cover, tentacle-covered pillars on the front and a grell on the back (I believe this was where the grell was first introed, though I'm not sure about that).


Anyways, there are a number of ways in which this module ties in nicely to RttToEE already. It's in the neighborhood (the Kron hills, if I recall). It was originally designed to be a follow-up module to S4 "The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth", though the connections aren't critical in any way.

The basic premise is a group of Gnomes have asked the party to assist in their battle against Norkers (another goblinoid, I think they're roughly halfway between a Goblin and a Kobold...if that's possible).

The adventure comes in, essentially, three parts.

Part 1 is the trek to FIND the temple....big map, lots of encounter areas, plenty of opportunity to wander at random for a long time before stumbling across the temple.

Part 2 is the upper temple. Overrun with various grades of humanoids, it's a very icky-scary setting for what amounts, mostly, to a humanoid bash. Norkers, Bugbears, Ogres, Trolls and a very nasty Moutain Giant for the boss.

Part 3 is the "old" places of the temple...spots where the humanoids haven't overrun it entirely yet. Old tombs, nasty critters (Grell, Caryatid Columns), and some of the most flavorful yet icky descriptiveness for evil artifacts/settings/stuff in general that are left behind when a temple is abandoned.

Pick it up and read it over, and you'll not look at the "artifacts" of Tharizdun and especially the Black Cyst the same way again.



Ok, overview done. How to actually USE it:

First, you have to get it. Not easy. This wasn't one of the best-circulated modules out there, and it's not a favorite on Ebay like 3.0 core books are right now.

However, thanks to WotC, many of the old modules (WG4 among them) are being sold as .PDF files. I'll go digging for the link in a later post (if nobody beats me to it), but for about $5, you can download the adventure in all of it's 1st edition glory.


So far as I know, nobody's yet done a full-blown 3.0 or 3.5 conversion of the module. I may well start this project up as soon as we're done with getting RttToEE polished up to 3.5 standards, and would appreciate the aid.

My personal favorite for how to introduce it is thus: After the PCs have made one or two attempts at the CRM, and are taking a break at the inn in Rastor, a dangerous-looking fellow in black plate mail shows up, buys a room, heads straight up, and nothing is seen of him. Come morning, he comes back out and heads straight out of town, towards the CRM. As soon as he's outside of town, he tosses a small figurine to the ground, and a large stone horse appears, which he rides off at a rapid clip.

He'll turn aside any PC conversation, but won't provoke a fight. He seems...driven. Why is apparent soon.

As soon as he reaches the west door, he immediately demands to speak to Terryngit, informs him of what he's discovered, and waits to send word to the Outer Fane...to Naquient directly.

What's up? He has FOUND the Forgotten Temple. He seeks assistance from the higher-ups to return there, negotiate with (and possably even recruit) the humanoids living there, and recover the lost artifacts...a find that would make Dunrat's efforts back in Hommlet seem like a mere pittance. On his person, he bears a map to where he has been.


Motivations for PCs?
- Discover what's so important to this minion of evil.
- Cut off a possible source of recruits/reinforcements.
- Learn more about who is behind the EEE cult.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

WarrenWright
Faen
(9/10/03 7:25 am)
Reply
Levels
What level characters do you think WG4 would be for, once converted?

My PCs are between 7th and 9th now, having cleared out: Air Temple, Western Bridge Complex, Orc caves, South Entrance, West Entrance and some other miscellaneous areas in between.

Later,

Warren

Andorax
Verrik
(9/10/03 8:20 am)
Reply
Re: Levels
A lot depends on how, exactly, it is converted. The concept of CR is a new one to 3.0, and a LOT of old 1.0 and 2.0 modules were written completely heedless of the effect of having several encoutners with sub-goblins, followed up with a fight with a Giant.


I'm guessing that 7th to 9th would fit in about right, though. Again, a lot depends on whether you're scaling down the biggies (perhaps a Hill Giant in lieu of a young Mountain Giant) or scaling up the wimps (2 warrior levels for the Norkers, one for the Ogres, HD advance the Grell, etc.)

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

Storm DKB 
Human
(9/10/03 9:29 am)
Reply
I'll help
Andorax, great idea. I have a copy of WG4, and I am willing to help convert if you need assistance. I'm sure we can sort out all potential CR issues. The module does have a wide Character Level berth - levels 5 to 10 - as written in 1st Ed. And the text indicates the adventure was designed for four PCs of 8th, 9th or 10th average level (WG4 pg. 5). So, 7th to 9th level sounds like a good target as an aggregate for conversion.

Please let me know if I may contribute. I'll keep my eye on this post :)

-------- Storm (Don) --------

P.S. SVGames sells the ESD in .pdf format. You may go to THIS page to order an ESD copy.

Edited by: Storm DKB  at: 9/10/03 9:35 am
Andorax
Verrik
(9/10/03 11:33 am)
Reply
Re: I'll help
You've already contributed one great thing...the direct link I hadn't tracked down yet.


My thought is that we write it up as close to the original (creature-wise) as we can manage, including a multitude of off-sources. I would like, however, to sidebar the adventure througout with references to alternative, core creatures.

For example, I know that the Leucrotta is in Monsters of Faerun, the Grell in MM2, and the Shadow Demon in the Book of Vile Darkness...but not everyone has these resources.


As a good starter, I believe this is a comprehensive list of thigns that do not appear ANYWHERE in WotC-published 3.0/3.5 edition. A good launching point is to convert these creatures, preferably to 3.5 standards.

Meazels
Coffer corpse
Guardian Daemon
Ear Seekers (probably as a Trap/Hazard)
Stunjelly
Boggart
Giant Troll
Brown Mold
Norkers

Give a shout out if these are published anywhere WotC-official, or give a go at converting them for use in this conversion.

I don't want to get *too* deeply involved in this until the 3.5ing of RttToEE is complete, but we'll have to see how things go.

"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?"

ZansForCans 
Litorian
(9/10/03 11:55 am)
Reply
Re: I'll help
Necromancer games got WotC permission to convert a bunch of 1e monsters that had been stranded over the years to 3e. The book is called 'Tome of Horrors' and has received many very good reviews. I still haven't picked it up myself, though. I think it runs about $30.

Here's at least a partial list of what's in it:

pub123.ezboard.com/fnecro...D=41.topic

I can't get to their site right now, but a cached page on Google suggests that they have converted at least some of that material to v3.5 as well.


Group Editing & Authoring Support
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deafdungeonmasterRIT
Litorian
(9/10/03 12:48 pm)
Reply
hmm
The best part of Tome of Horror are additional challenges and storyline of certain monsters. It really helps this book to become pratical. Jack of Tear helps to spark the interests of Titanswar and Scarred Line. I personally thought Fatlings, halflings (with different storylines), new sea races, and alien-like creatures that were destroyed by both gods and titans.

setanta14
Faen
(9/10/03 4:22 pm)
Reply
Re: hmm
Actually, WG4 takes place in the Yatil Mountains in a disputed area claimed by Perrenland, Bissel, Ket, and others... I seem to remember a map on the Canonfire site that showed its location in relation to S4... it was further west (deeper in the mountains) than the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, and maybe a little further north... the trail maps in S4 were used to try and locate the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun.

Dax Doomslayer
Human
(9/11/03 5:31 am)
Reply
Re: Creatures and Conversions
Andorax,
Actually a good number of these have been converted by 3rd party sources. The following are found in Necromancer Games Tome of Horrors (which I highly recommend btw):

Coffer Corpse CR 3
Guardian Daemon CR 7
Ear Seeker CR 3 (Hazard)
Stun Jelly CR 4
Boggart CR 7

The Giant Troll is in Mongoose's "Slayer Guide to Trolls" (CR 7).

Brown Mold is actually in the DMG on p. 76 (it is treated as a hazard I believe).

So that leaves us just with the Meazels - LOL!!

Dax Doomslayer
Human
(9/11/03 6:00 am)
Reply
Re: Creatures and Conversions
I just want to clarify - those are 3E conversions NOT 3.5E conversions. However, it probably shouldn't be as tough (hopefully) to convert from 3E to 3.5E . . .

grodog
Faen
(9/20/03 11:19 pm)
Reply
Re: hmm
Quote:
Actually, WG4 takes place in the Yatil Mountains in a disputed area claimed by Perrenland, Bissel, Ket, and others... I seem to remember a map on the Canonfire site that showed its location in relation to S4... it was further west (deeper in the mountains) than the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, and maybe a little further north... the trail maps in S4 were used to try and locate the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun.


Denis Tetreault has a great web page resource at www.timebomb.on.ca/denist...atils.html that details the Yatil mountain maps and some issues with their usage with respect to WG4 and S4.

grodog
----
Allan Grohe
grodog@pacbell.net
www.thepale.org/grodog/
www.thepale.org/grodog/greyhawk.html

Eltern
Faen
(9/23/03 2:38 pm)
Reply
Re: hmm
Definitely would be interested in this one. A ton, in fact :-)

Eltern

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