|
Author
|
Comment
|
WindsorDM
Memunite
(10/8/03 4:52 am)
Reply
|
Speed of Level Rise in Module
This was mentioned in another thread somewhere, but I could not find it (anyone else know what thread it is?).
What system are people using for training times and level advancement? I know it is a variant, and that in 3.0 (and even 3.5) it is assumed to be going on "in the background". it just seems to me that this sort of glossing over of thigns makes the advancement seem a little computer gameish.
IMC I use a calendar from 2002, it lets me use weather data, season change etc. So the party arrived in Hommlet on Aug 8th, and they went to the MOathouse on the 9th, (and scurried back again that night to regroup), That single outing though had enough encounters in it to push them to 4th level, (they had been close before heading off to the Moathouse).
They headed back on the 11th, and stayed overnight, and crushed through everything in their path, Big U, ghouls, ghasts, uber chickens. Over 48 hours later they return to Hommlet and take out the Moathouse late in the evening. They have enough XP to get to 5th level.
they spend from the 13th to 18th making scrolls and magic items and return to the Moathouse on the 19th. They take on an undead Festrath and grell. They seal the pit and head on to Nulb. They take out Wat, et al. and head to the Temple ruins. A slaughter of gnolls later they return to Hommlet on the 23rd, as 6th level characters.
They spend another week prepping items and scrolls and head off to Nulb to take on Lareth. (I used the Lareth help files that had Y'dey as the one that crushed his face and killed him)
So it is Sept 3rd, they have returned to Hommlet with a captive Lareth, as 6th level in all. So they are doing a level a week, including rest and regroup times. A level every 2 or 3 days if you skip the makes items times.
Is this too fast? too slow? too easy? Montyish?
Anyone else have a similar system? or a differing one? I am trying to find out if I am doing it right.
|
WindsorDM
Memunite
(10/8/03 4:59 am)
Reply
|
And another thing
Given the speed of rise of levels, how do you handle the leaders staying the same level. When the party first arrived Yether was almost twice the level of the group, and used his authority as the Priest of Pelor in teh area to have the Paladin of Pelor check out the reports of robed men on the roads.
Now the Paladin is a level higher, and so is the party Cleric. Who outranks who now??
|
Killiak 
Dynama
(10/8/03 6:49 am)
Reply
|
Re: And another thing
Yether is the officially APPOINTED leader, so he outranks an adventuring cleric or palladin. At least that is my take on it.
|
arcane12
Memunite
(10/8/03 7:55 pm)
Reply
|
Re: And another thing
yes. level is just a measure of the characters ability, not his standing in society. I still like the idea of the head preist not even being able to cast spells (eg. a VERY devoted rogue who is the 'head' cleric of the local Olidimmara church, etc). I think the hiarachy should be sorted out by personal contacts, and ability to do the job - in most evil churches this is the person who kicks most ass - and may have levels of cleric, but should be the most qualified person, not highest level 
|
Caedrel
Malakite
(10/8/03 8:34 pm)
Reply
|
"Zero" training time
I've been quite happy with the idea of training going on in the background and gaining a level happening between sessions (although I plan on doing the transition from 20th to Epic levels memorable and/or hard *if* the PCs ever get there!)
With the timeline pressure and the lack of convenient training locations nearby, I think a training or time requirement to level up would slow down our play too much.
I also have no problem with no training time if the PCs are just going to add ranks to established skills.
However, if they want to do something especially different (like multiclass into fighter / wizard, put 5 ranks into a completely new skill like Survival, etc), I do ask them to tell me well in advance of levelling up, so their characters can be "working away at it" during their current level.
If they don't give that sort of advance notice, I do impose a training requirement ("you have to find someone to teach you" or "you're going to have to practice that a lot more"), or they can wait until they next level up. My players seem to find this reasonable and acceptable, so I've stayed with it...
|
ZansForCans 
Cherub
(10/8/03 8:55 pm)
Reply
|
Re: "Zero" training time
We do leveling in the background too. I only allow consumables (hp, spell slots, etc.) to increase after a full nights rest though. Otherwise, we just explain it as on-going training. The formal acquisition just means you really figured out how to do it right (feat, spell, SA, etc.). This works best (i.e. is most fun for everyone) especially for our very short (3-4 hours) sessions.
In any case, I think it might be very hard for players otherwise once you get into the CRM. Although it is more realistic perhaps, I think I'd get annoyed at the break in the plotline as the story gets rolling. They would have to constantly be making the hard decision to leave and risk their progress (and already have to make that decision for cashing in loot in many campaigns). Plus, it's unlikely in many stories like this that the baddies are going to let the adventurers alone when they decide to take a break.
Group Editing & Authoring Support
flexible campaign management for the web
info :: demo |
DestyNova1
Memunite
(10/8/03 9:25 pm)
Reply
|
Leveling
Perhaps some things can be considered automatic. Like a fighter gaining more skill in his chosen weapon; It's a natural evolution of skill. For switching over to another class, finding a teacher would be required.
|
smetzger
Memunite
(10/9/03 6:16 am)
Reply
|
Re: Leveling
No training needed for my group either.
I assume all training happens while resting and camping. Kind of how it happens in LotR.
|
WindsorDM
Memunite
(10/11/03 7:07 am)
Reply
|
spell gains
I have it going on in the background as well, and, IMC, the party is loosely connected with a militant merchant who is supplying them with mundane equipment free of charge anyway.
My only quibble is concerns wizards. New spell levels are supposed to represent a huge increase in magical power, and they get this in the middle of a dungeon? And assuming the wizard is in a long delve situation, he does not have access to a library and the quiet contemplation time needed to generate new spells (and get those 2 free ones each level).
And from an internal logic point of view/suspension of disbelief. Wizards are always thought to take years to gain power, andare white haired and feeble by the time they reach the pinnacle of their craft. In D&D, with a day on, day off schedule my group has gone up from 1st to 6th in 2 months, from newbies to fireballs in no time.
And what about Rufus? By the end of the module, the party will be able to kick his butt, and will have blown past him in about 3 months (if they keep this pace up). It is not a majr issue (we are still having funm which is the point), but it DOES rankle somewhat
|
smetzger
Memunite
(10/13/03 5:28 am)
Reply
|
Re: spell gains
Quote:
And what about Rufus? By the end of the module, the party will be able to kick his butt, and will have blown past him in about 3 months (if they keep this pace up). It is not a majr issue (we are still having funm which is the point), but it DOES rankle somewhat
PCs are always the cream of the crop. Besides Rufus is sitting on his keister in Hommlet while the party is _doing_ something. If Rufus came with them then he would gain level, but he doesn't head off to Rastor. Rufus is semi-retired.
|
Gwyddno Maolan
Memunite
(10/13/03 5:28 am)
Reply
|
Re: Speed of Level Rise in Module
You should see a slow down when the group moves to Rastor. At least, as compared the calendar - playing time to level stays about the same. Reason is, very little of what your players will want to buy as they level is available in Rastor, and it's only a little more useful as a place to sell things. They'll need to go to Verbobonc (or other decent-sized city) for a lot of downtime needs, but won't have easy access to Teleport for most of the CRM.
My group has wiped the four temples in the CRM and is getting ready for their assault on the outer fane with character levels ranging from ninth to tenth (a little variation due to deaths and the occasional absent player). A little over four months has passed since they first arrived in Hommlet, more than two months of that time has probably been spent travelling somewhere big enough to get the equipment they need. They've only recently attained a level where Teleport scrolls are practical for shopping trips, and even more recently the party Wizard scribed the spell. I expect the remainder of the adventure to take a lot less time on the calendar as a result.
Gwyddno Aonaranach - Serene Master of Pain and... Forestry?!
Earedwyn Lanngaoth - Swashbuckler Extraordinaire
Last Warden Standing, Vae Victis! |
WindsorDM
Memunite
(10/13/03 5:36 am)
Reply
|
My party does not want to go to Rastor
Like the title says, they looked at the map after reading about Rastor in the letter, and realized it was like 200 miles away, and decided it was too far, so they went back to the ruined temple. I am going to need the clue bat to get them there.
Yes, Rastor is too small to have the gear to let them rampage along. That will slow things down, good point Gwyddno, thanks.
|
Nyarlathotep
Memunite
(10/13/03 11:54 am)
Reply
|
Advancement rate
I let my group advance in the background, figuring that all the training in the world to smash monsters is almost as good as just smashing monsters in the first place. They smash monsters in lieu of training .
I found that the travel distance between Verbabonc, Homlett and Rastor somewhat balanced out my group's rapid level advancement. About 230 days have passed in game time since they first arrived in Homlett. In that time they have advanced from 4th level to 10th, and this with a large group (4 PCs, Xaod, Tenaris, and an occasionally Rogue/Shadowdancer who spends most of her time trapped in a gem).
The crazy part is that they have almost all hit 10th level and have really only explored a bit of the CRM. The main entrance and Earth Temple; the South Entrance and the Water Bridge, before retreating from the destrachan; The hydra cave and the Stoneheart replacement for the orcs from the BOB (Stoneheart's maximized lightning bolts sent them running); and last session they explored the dwarven halls and destroyed the Western Bridge forces. Still two temples and two bridges that they haven't explored (plus a restocked Earth and Air Temple, Water Bridge and Main Entrance force). They'll all probably be well into levels 12 - 14 when they explore the Fanes...
|
Caedrel
Malakite
(10/13/03 6:42 pm)
Reply
|
That'll be a shock to their system!
Quote:
The crazy part is that they have almost all hit 10th level and have really only explored a bit of the CRM. The main entrance and Earth Temple; the South Entrance and the Water Bridge, before retreating from the destrachan; The hydra cave and the Stoneheart replacement for the orcs from the BOB (Stoneheart's maximized lightning bolts sent them running); and last session they explored the dwarven halls and destroyed the Western Bridge forces. Still two temples and two bridges that they haven't explored (plus a restocked Earth and Air Temple, Water Bridge and Main Entrance force). They'll all probably be well into levels 12 - 14 when they explore the Fanes...
At those sorts of levels, they'll be kicking the CRM's rears - although the better organised parts may give them a run for their money with smart tactics and sheer numbers... their rate of levelling up should slow down, and if they start to get cocky, the first Outer Fane encounter will be shock to their system!
Oh, and I suspect that Thrommel, the assassins, and Ukemil and his dire lions are probably going to start sniffing around the PCs now too...
|
 Siobharek 
Cherub
(10/14/03 12:33 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
|
Re: That'll be a shock to their system!
The fact that the PCs are now fairly high-level compared to the module requirement does indeed mean that they will breeze past the opposition. If that becomes too boring, have the Doomdreamers step up their plans and let them find Lareth about now. That will trigger a series of events, culminating with Lareth successfully summoning Imix. Then, if not a little sooner, have Varachan make his move and make contact with the PCs. That way, the PCs will get into the Fane before reaching level 12-13, and they should feel challenged again.
WindsorDM: You might assume that your wizard bones up on his Arcana 101 whenever he has the time, so that he can indeed deduce the effects of his two spells when the time is right. If you force the wizard to go to Verbobonc all the time, you're penalizing him needlessly. You might also want to consider leaving some scrolls with arcana spells in the treasure hoards: Wizards do get the short end of the stick, treasure-wise, in that adventure.
I would also advise you to have some replacements come along for Tal Chammish, once the PCs expose him. Otherwise, your group will (again) neede to go to Verbobonc all the time, meaning that the mines will be re-stocked, the PCs fight in the same areas again and again, and they'll gain levels without going anywhere, plot-wise. IMC, 2 disgraced gnome merchants heard of this group who were raking in gold and masterwork armours and they set up shop in Rastor in order to cater to this group. They acted as the party's brokers, and I let them order magic items from Verbobonc, buy their loot at a slightly better price (65% value, I think), and it all worked great.
As to hitting them with a clue bat, why? They'll check out the old temple, find some hobgoblins, kill some hobgoblins, and then what? I'd let them work a little for it, and if they discard a perfectly good clue because it involves travel, they should work a little to get back on track.
Some DMs here would say that you are lucky, as most parties skip off to Rastor the minute they find the note, leaving all the interesting bits in Hommlet behind.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
|
Okay -- Your Turn
Email This To a Friend
Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies 
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies