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Avisaj
Mortal
(10/22/03 4:17 pm)
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DM's Only - Return to ToEE: help needed
I am a DM for some time, and I have this little problem, my CE party joined forces with the cult of Tharizdun. They know what will happen if Tharizdun is set free, they think that they can outthink the celrgy. I already gave them some tough quests, such as to convert Ingrith, to make Xaod fall and become blackguard, to steal Terjon's amulet and to set it up to Ehlona's priest, etc.
Any ideas and advices will be appriceated.

Thrommel
Runechild (mod)
Council of Magisters

(10/22/03 4:37 pm)
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Re: DM's Only - Return to ToEE: help needed
Basically then you need to turn the module on its ear.

THEY need to find the Champion. THEY need to collect the Elemental power gems. THEY need to clear the Recovered Temple. THEY need to keep the authorities in Verbobonc well-bribed and well clear of the Kron Hills.

Oh yeah, and the other factions of the DD's are just as mercenary and cutthroat as they ever were. You're going to have drow attempting to steal the gem just as they are about to get them. The various CRM temples out recruiting and unwittingly drawing unnecessary attention. Set Thrommel loose and have him out and about competing with the same mission objectives.

And so on...

The other issue here is that, unless your party is insane, they SHOULD have some survival instincts. So you need to show them how truly wicked the Doomdreamers are. Feed someone to the machine. Mercilessly demand all treasure and coinage to be turned over to Herack -- on pain of torture.

There are plenty of good reasons to fear the encompassing madness that Tharizdun worship leads to. Give 'em a few.

-Thrommel, who wonders if your players are just toying with you.

~Council of Magisters~
~ Arcana Unearthed ~

errant42
Memunite
(10/22/03 7:17 pm)
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Re: DM's Only - Return to ToEE: help needed
Yeh, Thrommel's right. You can incorporate them into the whole evil scheme, but they need to be made aware that if this scheme comes to fruition, they will all be destroyed, utterly and irrevocably. If they are okay with this, then they should be right at home with the Doomdreamers... heck, you could even let any Divine casters switch to worshipping Tharizdun, and be visited by maddening dreams. Varachan saw the light and switched to the good side, maybe your PCs will get wise and do the same. If they don't figure it out until it's too late, then the campaign ends with Tharizdun triumphant and reality purged like the flushing of some cosmic toilet.

JRedGiant
Memunite
(10/22/03 9:35 pm)
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Re: DM's Only - Return to ToEE: help needed
As another adversary, you could have them try to fend off raiding heroes. Scads of ideas for hero groups are available from the various DM logs and are chock full of PC tactical choices.

smetzger
Memunite
(10/23/03 7:07 am)
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Re: DM's Only - Return to ToEE: help needed
I would...
1) Play up the insanity. Have leaders be all friendly and encouraging one time and then demanding and demeaning the next time. Make some of them meticulous. "When I say I want his head on a platter, I mean on a platter, not in a bag!". Send them on meaningless tasks.

2) Play up the infighting. Everyone in the CRM wants to climb the ladder of power. Try to make them need the help of others, but at the same time not be able to trust anyone.

3) Keep secrets about the cult. Its sounds like they know a fair amount. But try and limit the amount of information they have and dole it out piecemeal when something significant happens.

errant42
Memunite
(10/23/03 8:35 pm)
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Re: DM's Only - Return to ToEE: help needed
Those are some great ideas.... You know, this is starting to sound kinda fun. Have the players create a party whose goal it is to rise through the ranks of the Temples, and eventually the Doomdreamers. There is enough detail to the various CRMs and Fanes personalities (on these boards if not in the module itself) that the DM has plenty of potential allies and adversaries to play out all the intrigues and power struggles. With quests for the gems (and/or the Elemental Binders that Siobharek recently pointed me to) to provide some dungeon crawls for raw XP and treasure, this could be a full campaign.

Thrommel
Runechild (mod)
Council of Magisters

(10/23/03 10:50 pm)
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Re: DM's Only - Return to ToEE: help needed
I suggested something similar a long, long time ago. I think it would work best with a LE party, however. Some drow, for instance.

The chaotic alignments just give the party too much leeway to say "Who cares about the end of the world!? I'm chaotic evil! Bring it on!" It's difficult to build meaningful plot hooks around characters who refuse to attach any sort of meaning to their existence or actions.

Now if the players really want to play the evil part and not the chaos, you can have an interesting game.

But personally, I find it challenging to DM for a PC whose attitude is "Screw every else, I only care about me! In fact, I don't even care about me!!!"

With those drow ambassadors in the module, there's clearly an opportunity for a LE party of drow to be involved in the story.

-Thrommel, who is, ironically, chaotic evil.

~Council of Magisters~
~ Arcana Unearthed ~

msherman
Kalkydrite
(10/24/03 5:50 am)
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Re: DM's Only - Return to ToEE: help needed
Quote:
-Thrommel, who is, ironically, chaotic evil.
Ah, you can't hide the truth from us, Thrommel... we all know that deep down inside, you're really a lawful-good pussycat... Look! He's blushing!

Thrommel
Runechild (mod)
Council of Magisters

(10/24/03 6:30 am)
Reply
Re: DM's Only - Return to ToEE: help needed
I'm not blushing -- I just had breakfast.

:evil

-Thrommel, putting the evil back in chaotic evil.

~Council of Magisters~
~ Arcana Unearthed ~

errant42
Memunite
(10/24/03 11:18 am)
Reply
Evil Party
A strongly united LE party would probably be the most effective in climbing the ranks of power-- at least, until one PC decided to screw over the others in that final bid for extra power.

But I'd leave it to the players to decide. A mixed party of various neutral and evil characters, some of whom may have their own hidden agendas (which may or may not coincide with the cult's) also has a lot of possibilities. The PCs would quickly learn that in order to survive, they have to form alliances, but that they can't trust even their allies too much.

Avisaj
Mortal
(10/24/03 1:29 pm)
Reply
Re: Evil Party
Well, thanks everyone, THIS IS my first adressing to any player forum, and I find that there are lots of you who want to help (or have REALLY lots of free time).
Anyway, I wanted to give in some details about the party.
1. human cleric (ex-Erythnil, now Tharizdun). Power mongering psycho, he betrayed his parties many times in previous games. This time, he betrayed Erythnil. I already sent a succubus to get him, but slowly, and a band of ravagers who simply have nothing smarter to do.
2. human fighter. Control maniac. He has to know everything about everyone, is also very proud of his way of role-playing, but I still succeded in convincing him that Xaod hates the church of St.Cuthbert. This is related to the quest I gave them to convert a paladin to a blackguard.
3. halfling rogue. This guy is mostly suicidal, trusts no one, wants just money, plain and simple. He is the leader of the faction of the party who want to screw the cult and just use the new position to infiltrate the cult. Holds his allegiances to no one (Olidammara style!!!).
4. uman ranger. hates everything and everyone. Misanthropic player, likes solitude. Tries to make allies outside of party, also out of eyes of the party. Will sell them all to survive.

Their general idea is to report all activities of the cult to someone important, once they've taken their share of the loot. The priest is relatively unaware of this, but he also will try to convert to Hextorians, once their spying mission is over. They want to keep their heads, but also want to have fun.
There are plenty of role-playong chances, maybe even more than with the good guys.
There is also my good NPC party, sent to hunt down the cult. They will not engage the PC's unless they prove to be a threat, which they will, sooner or later.

I hope that these new details will give you more ideas for plot and quests. Thank you all.

DestyNova1
Memunite
(10/24/03 2:43 pm)
Reply
evil
Try a LE/NE group of drow, sent by Lolth to get revenge. Zuggetmoy works as well, since her followers would want to free her.(Followers of Ooze PrC works)

LE would be good for the leader types. They keep the rest in line with charisma/domination/. NE is good for the grunt fighters/rogues. A NE drow male would be a good fighter, being whipped into line due to drow society.

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