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Comment
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Renegade
Cherub
(10/28/03 2:05 pm)
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Re: Okay, how to start?
Um... The book was just released this month, I'm not sure I should go violating their copyright on the day I got it.  I'll give you the paraphrased, short version.
The good character must actively pursue goodness. The mere avoidance of evil makes him solidly neutral, not good. He must be merciful, just, help others, worship good deities, engage in charity and healing, and be willing to make personal sacrifices in order to further these things.
I would note a trend in the illustrations in the book. There are a lot of half-orc paladins and monks pictured.  Not saying that half-orcs can't be lawful good, as we all know they can, but its beginning to look like all paladins are half-orcs. 
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."--John F. Kennedy |
arcane12
Memunite
(10/28/03 2:58 pm)
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Re: Okay, how to start?
excellent  that was basically exactly what I needed!
Hmm, it doesn't really speculate on grey areas does it? I guess I will just have to make those sort of exceutive choices myself...  Thanks
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Cordo Crowfoot
Cherub
(10/28/03 4:22 pm)
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Re: Okay, how to start?
As to your first points, I can see all of the tactical subterfuge being used with no problem. Sneaking into an evil enemy's room and taking him on with overwhelming force would be fine as long as the paladin gave them a chance to surrender (or unless they had good reason for thinking the enemy is irredemable and/or couldn't be trusted).
As far as dressing up like the cultists, putting on a black/ochre/purple robe, I can see that... But I think most paladins will and should draw the line at dangling an evil holy symbol from around their neck. That doesn't mean the rest of the party can't help get them by.
Lying... Agreed.
But as I said above I think "associate" definitely would include working together with the water temple for a short time. You said it only includes allies/party members, but I think that the paladin would be treating them as such by fighting alongside of them... and that's the way most everyone I have talked to interprets that line. (Eadric in Sepulchrave's excellent story hour on ENWorld wouldn't even stay at a party with an evil entity.) But hey as long as you are happy with that.
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LostSoul
Memunite
(10/28/03 5:48 pm)
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Ed
Eadric talks to a Prince of Devils and Demon Goddesses on a regular basis, though. I think you could call that association.
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Renegade
Cherub
(10/28/03 7:53 pm)
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Re: Ed
Yo, Arcane12, is your EZInbox on? I'll PM you more stuff. Still not gonna violate copyright, but I don't want to hijack my own thread.
So, back on topic. I have a large group with six players. Will that help stop the PC fatality factor? I assume that the killer thing is based on the standard 4 person party.
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."--John F. Kennedy |
Cordo Crowfoot
Cherub
(10/28/03 11:48 pm)
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Re: Ed
Quote:
Eadric talks to a Prince of Devils and Demon Goddesses on a regular basis, though. I think you could call that association.
Absolutely, it is association. And the storyline makes it clear that this is a very special case that would normally not be allowed... Eadric is the Ahma, the new Saizhan philosophy is being explored...
"They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came... They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits" China Mieville, Perdido Street Station |
Cordo Crowfoot
Cherub
(10/28/03 11:56 pm)
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Re: Ed
Quote:
Will that help stop the PC fatality factor? I assume that the killer thing is based on the standard 4 person party.
That should help, but not stop. A lot of it depends on your approach as DM as well. You say your players are good at combat, but do you want to continue to push your players to get even better?
In the early module some of the areas you see deaths on are:
1) Utreshimon - will you play Big U overconfidently not using breath weapons or will you use his abilities to the fullest?
2) Chatrilon assassinations, especially if after #1 above
3) If the trog in the moathouse uses obscuring mist in the platform room, drinks his levitation potion, and then cuts the rope when PCs step on the platform to engage him, that could be deadly
4) Festrath if he cuts the rope at 100'
5) Wat - one player is going to face a fort save or die situation here almost definitely
6) Lareth can be deadly if given time to buff up
7) Groups running into the recovered temple haphazardly and getting surrounded by the hobgoblins
"They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came... They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits" China Mieville, Perdido Street Station |
deafdungeonmasterRIT
Dynama
(10/29/03 6:13 pm)
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well
Paladin DON'T have to get into the temple if that is against his will.. he can wait outside.. perhaps to be a distraction for an outside temple guards!
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arcane12
Memunite
(10/29/03 6:56 pm)
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Re: well
Actually I don't think any cleric would want to wear a holy symbol except for his own - I mean if I was his god I would disaprove...
Party size is a small factor - For an idea I will give you a run down on wheat death happened and you can see where yours may come from:
Thursay party (4 PC's):
Death 1: Abandoned Temple - One two many hobgoblins (actually they ran in, saw the numbers and ran out, but he was too slow...)
Death 2: Same as above. - Claw Claw Rend (Dire Ape - not long after this I implemented longer dieing rules, stopped many needless deaths)
Sunday group (6 PC's):
Death 1: Moathouse - Cocatrice (Not an actual death, but was no aware of break enchantment being useful until two weeks ago  )
Death 2: Lightning Towers (CRM) Maybe I shoulda stepped it down to 5d6?
Death 3: Chymon (CRM) I had her come out to deal with the party when they killed a force of the spider eater riders when they decided to go to the water door (without they key) the lighning did not deter them... :/
Death 4: D'Gran (CRM) 3.5 Cone of cold. Was being belted by a Hill Giant AND a Fighter Troll too...
Death 5: Earth Bridge (CRM) - Rogue missed turn to stone trap (Not actual death but counting it anyway )
Death 6: Buffed Trolls, Earth bridge (CRM) -Claw Claw Rend. I am glad I did not release the Bebelith - that would have been a TPK. (Note: this player was away this day  )
Note After death two I had implemented the Extended Dying rule - Bascially you 'bled' for rounds = CON, then automatically lose 1 HP per round until HP = -(con+10) then you are dead. This stops some of those silly deaths, without affecting balance any by allowing a character to remain operative. I notice the one who makes greatest use if it is the newbie, who puts herself at too much risk (latest character is a dwarven tank talked into by me) and the cleric (has a tendancy to make some quite silly mistakes, unkown reason )
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