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ZansForCans 
Cherub
(11/7/03 1:56 pm)
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CRM prisoners
Just out of curiosity, what have your various parties done with prisoners collected from the CRM? My group likes to gather them on occasion for information, but then is stuck with what to do with them. In Hommlet, Elmo was there to keep them, but Rastor seems a little more dicy. Even if Rerrid/Jardeth decide to keep them, after (or I guess if) a few of the more powerful NPCs are taken, Rastor might become a target for rescue or, perhaps, more likely razing.
I guess it will be something they will have to deal with--I just wanted to be a little more prepared for what they might come up with 
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msherman
Kalkydrite
(11/7/03 2:06 pm)
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Re: CRM prisoners
So far, the only prisoner rescued in my game is the bard from the fire temple (Jurikath, IIRC). I decided that he was a party-mate and lover of Tymerian's, so he's moved in to her tower and the party's visited them for coffee and info a few times since.
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rweston
Memunite
(11/7/03 3:04 pm)
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Re: CRM prisoners
Zans,
I'm assuming you're not talking about prisoners that are being rescued from the CRM, but rather cultists who have bene taken prisoner by your players.
Correct?
So far my (Good aligned) group captured two guards at the main gate, questioned them, then executed them. Heads off, dropped em' off the cliff.
Do I hear cries of murder?
Do I hear cries of alignment violation?
Just so you know I'm running a fairly straight D&D 3.0 rules as written, Book of Vile Darkness - Black & White Alignment definition. Killing an evil thing in cold blood is not evil.
In my book any of the guards (the lowly ones included) who work for the Temple ,even if they know nothing about the big T, are evil evil evil people. These guys are guards for evil priests who capture innocent people for bloody sacrifices & are buddy buddy with all sorts of vile monsters whose alignment entries in the MM read "always evil".
No neutral or good guys would hang with these cultists & claim "just doin' my job" for more than about a day before finding their alignment shifting to evil.
I also view the guards as being members of the cult - they are not priests, but I expect they take part in the ceremonies & rites to the EEE or big T.
My players have no compunction about executing these bas*ards after they have questioned them - and frankly I as DM would be more likely to look at alignment if they let one of these "monsters" go free after questioning.
Just my two cents.
I would say if your players want to kill them they should be free to do so without Alignment qualms - unless you are using alignment conversion rules I'd say the sooner these insanely evil prisoners are dead, the better.
Rory Weston
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msherman
Kalkydrite
(11/7/03 3:05 pm)
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Re: CRM prisoners
Bah. Of course that's what Zans was asking; it's a much more interesting question than the one I answered. Never mind me... I suppose I ignored that question because it's never really come up in my game; my party seems to kill pretty much every enemy they meet.
Edited by: msherman at: 11/7/03 3:06 pm
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arcane12
Memunite
(11/7/03 3:08 pm)
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Re: CRM prisoners
Here's what my two parties have done:
Sunday group: Recused Descritad, had her along for a little while until the party member who was away for one game told them to get rid of her against two of the other players wishes. (the player hates party NPC's unless the group is very small - he wont even adventure with his own Cohort from the leadership feat :/ ) Descritad stole a few gems as she left- her 'fair' share of the loot 
Rescued Earth temple prisoners. Gave the commoners some travelling cash and the party donkey. Sent Tenaris on her way with some MW gear. The same two players wanted her to stay.
Thursday group: Rescued Tenaris and commoners. Allowed commoners to go oh their way after they left the dungeon (they explorered a bit first, and killed the Attach in the NBC). Currently have equipt Tenaris with MW heavy armor, a +1 longsword, and heavy sheild. Tenaris is a second line fighter. (I try to have her intelligently stay back to protect the sorceress until she has a couple more hit points or fighing an enemy she thinks she can handle -eg not dire apes or chimeras!)
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ZansForCans
Cherub
(11/7/03 8:05 pm)
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Re: CRM prisoners
Yeah, sorry I guess that could be interpreted either way I was mostly asking about what happens when they party decides to capture the evil dudes. But the other side is interesting too!
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Trithereon
Cherub
(11/7/03 11:24 pm)
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Re: CRM prisoners
There have been precious few enemies captured in my campaign. They tend to die quickly under the intense pressure exerted upon them by the player characters.
However, there was recently a capture and release. The hag prison guard in the CRM surrendered to the PCs and offered them information on how to operate the prison and who to free. She warned them that there were dangerous evil prisoners incarcerated and that without her knowledge they risk unleasing that evil.
She made them promise (vows in the name of their gods) to let her go free if she helped them understand how to operate the prison and who was safe to release. She did and they did. They warned her to never return, else they would kill her on sight.
The CN thief in the group wanted to kill her after she fullfilled her end of the bargain but the LN monk threatened to disable the thief if he tried. In the end, the hag fled with no intentions of returning. She knew that she faced certain death from Hedrack for betraying the Fanes, so she fled.
That's just one example ... I may recall more, as I think about it.
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msherman
Kalkydrite
(11/8/03 5:16 am)
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Re: CRM prisoners
Actually, I lied; there has been one catch-and-release in my game, too, which I've mentioned on these boards before. Mereclar was captured at the main gate, the only one alive at the end of that fight. The party had intended to keep Terrenygit alive as well, but his Rage expired while he was unconscious, and the extra HP were the only thing keeping him alive.
Mereclar was questioned and cut a deal with the party; I played him as a hired mercenary, who would happily give up the cult in exchange for personal gain. He gave up info in small enough chunks to successfully negotiate his way out of restraints, into some healing, and finally, he negotiated his freedom and return of his arms and armor in exchange for heading back to Rastor to fetch the party a replacement wagon and horse (their wagon had been destroyed by Wormspike, and their horse eaten by the Howler). Mereclar wasn't as successful at negotiating with Tal Chammish as he was with the party, so he killed Tal and burned down his shop, stealing a wagon for the party. They gave Mereclar his freedom, and he's since joined up with an ex-cohort of the party's and a few other NPCs to form an adventuring party that's attacking the mines for fun and profit; they've sacked the air temple and are currently being held prisoner somewhere inside.
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arcane12
Memunite
(11/9/03 1:07 pm)
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Re: CRM prisoners
oh, oops My mistake.
In regard to the whole book of vile darkness black and white good and evil, it does say that it is not evil to hunt down an irredemably evil monster and slay it in it's home with no quarter, but only some creatures conform to this description such as chromatic dragon. It is an evil act to kill prisoners in cold blood, or at the very least a non-good act. Compasion and mercy are some of the traits that define a good character.
I see no problem in taking down a bad guy in honest combat, and I do not think a good character needs to stop attacking to give aid to down enemies, but once the fight is over it is not a good act to do Coup de Grace's on helpless enemies, or question captives and then kill them.
Back to taking prisoners: Neither of my two groups have taken prisoners, though the Thursday group allowed a couple of gnolls escape from the Air temple area, let the Orcs go, and let about eight guys flee from the Main gate (they even had it down to a T - one guy on the door taking the potions of Cure light before each warrior left).
The Sunday group has only had one surrender, mostly because they don't give them enough time to flee, or just hit the groups early with area effect spells (hmm even if they save they die? doh!). The managed to get one guy to surrender at the Earth bridge complex, and that was only because he was in the middle of the party and was unable to be safely targeted with the ice storm that took down all his mates in the first round of combat.
The most interesting thing is the Thursay group, which started out using cunning and guile, seems to be getting tired of it and is heading toward traditional hack and slash, even if bad guys want to talk, whereas the Sunday group seems to have tired of hack and slash and wants to talk more often (sudden lack of the Barbarian may have changed this, it didn't help that the Thursday group has sent the Barbarian in first the last time they got a RP opportunity).
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Renegade
Cherub
(11/9/03 3:45 pm)
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Re: CRM prisoners
Good characters are bound to accept surrender and treat prisoners properly. Torture is out. Summary execution is out. Cutting down a surrendering foe is out. Those are evil acts. That said, a good character doesn't need to be stupid about prisoners. Bind, gag, and blindfold them, just don't torture them.
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."--John F. Kennedy |
 Siobharek 
Cherub
(11/10/03 6:07 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: CRM prisoners
My group disarmed grunts and sent them off. Captured cultists were too evil and mad to be saved, so they summarily executed them.
Siobharek
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smetzger
Memunite
(11/10/03 6:23 am)
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Re: CRM prisoners
My group has let the flunkies go.
Turned Dunrat over to Elmo.
My group just captured Kadis, questioned him at length, stuffed him in a bag of holding, and then summoned a Lantern Archon which took him to the church in Verona (Verbabonc).
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