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Author
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Comment
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arcane12
Memunite
(11/9/03 2:24 pm)
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Helm of Opposite Alignment
I am not sure if this belong's here, or on a general discussion, but as I thought of it specificly to use on the Cleric's of big T, I thought I would post it here.
How would creating these Items and using them on captured T clerics be viewed? The creation cost would only be 2K, and this would not be a huge problem for a 12th level party (minimum level to create). Once you have the captured cleric in custody you put the helm on him. If he makes his save (easily viewed but watching the magic arua on the helm when it goes the helm has worked) you take it off and try again.
Now doing this could been seen as a Good act as this person is more or less permanently changed to good (wish or miracle to reverse). However it is taking the free will choice away from the person which is BAD(tm). However the good done by this person could outweigh that? Hard choice. what do you think? (Imagine Hedrack running around putting flowers in people's hair, helping old ladies across the road, going mad with grief over the decades of evil he has done...)
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KnightOfRound 
Mortal
(11/9/03 4:23 pm)
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Re: Helm of Opposite Alignment
I don't think the issue of the "Helm of Opposite Alignment" is a Good/Evil decision. I see it as a Lawful/Chaotic decision.
Using the helm to force duality alignment changes would be a chaotic act; the duality of Good and Evil makes the D&D universe orderly.
So let's assume that your PC is a cleric of Moradin. Moradin is Lawful Good. He's the type of god that would condemn converting an evil person to good via a magic item. His opinion would be "An evil person converted to good by a weapon is still an evil person at heart".
On the other hand, let's assume that your PC is a cleric of Kord (the god of strength). He's chaotic good. He believes that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". So he doesn't care if his battles are fought with "converted" NPCs, so long as they're fighting on his side he'll accept them.
So use the Lawful/Chaotic aspects of their respective gods in order to decide if such an action is favorable or unfavorable.
Of course there are exceptions to the rules. What if the evil NPC converted to good "sees the light" so to speak, and declines the opportunity to switch back? But that doesn't apply to the scenario you're asking about.
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arcane12
Memunite
(11/9/03 4:40 pm)
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Re: Helm of Opposite Alignment
According to the cursed magic item description the person will fight to keep his new alignment. Ok, that kinda makes sense  I do see it as a very grey area morality wise, still, but I have always had more of a problem coming to grips with law versus chaos than good versus evil. GvE is a bit easier to relate to. 
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deafdungeonmasterRIT
Cherub
(11/9/03 5:03 pm)
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suppose if..
what if Hedrack and the First became lawful evil? How will that impacts the game?
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arcane12
Memunite
(11/9/03 6:06 pm)
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Re: suppose if..
From 3.5 SRD MagicItemsVI.rtf
Quote:
On a failed save, the alignment of the wearer is radically altered to an alignment as different as possible from the former alignment—good to evil, chaotic to lawful, neutral to some extreme commitment (LE, LG, CE, or CG). Alteration in alignment is mental as well as moral, and the individual changed by the magic thoroughly enjoys his new outlook.
As you can see if this was done to Hedrack he would change alignment from CE (I believe?) to LG (the alignment that is as different as possible from his former alignment). He would obviously share all info he has with the party to start with, lose all spells, etc. It is also possible (read very likely) he would adventure with the party to put a stop to the cults plans - it wants to destroy the world!
Not that it matters, I think (looking back on it) it was a silly idea, I don't think any party would bother to try - why when they can just kill him?
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Taelohn
Memunite
(11/9/03 7:41 pm)
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Re: suppose if..
My party, after killing The Third, had her ressurected and then used a Helm of Opposite Alignment on her. She aided them for the remainder of the quest.
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 Infiniti2000
Cherub
(11/9/03 8:47 pm)
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ezSupporter
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cursed items
She was willing to be resurrected by the good cleric?
In any case, how does one willingly go about making a cursed item? Do they get the 'formula' for the item off the net somewhere?
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Lunus Quelnegarde
Memunite
(11/9/03 11:15 pm)
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Re: cursed items
Even if Hedrack, the Triad, etc were turned LG... I still wouldn't remove their insanity score from being clerics of Tharizdun. So they'd still be insane. Just... lawful good and insane.
With all my love for Hedrack, I'd almost like to see him as a neutral... or "not quite" bad guy. Someone the party doesn't have to fight, but is always kinda a loose cannon.
Then again, I can't say how many times how much I liked Hedrack.
But Hedrack would kick just as much butt no matter what side he was on - He's Hedrack!
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madfox
Cherub
(11/10/03 1:18 am)
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Re: cursed items
IMO good is all about the free will to decide. Forcing somebodies alignment on somebody by magic is as far as I am concerned an evil act. Ask your players how they would react to the helmer, because I know from a rant on these boards that a lot of players actually hate it when it happens to their characters. If they can easily craft the item, so can the enemy and if there is one group who definitely has no problem with forcing somebody to become evil then it are the insane cultists of Tharizdun. They don't even care if the now evil opponent still fights them. All they care about is that they now have another evil person in this world who is bound to do things that bring the destruction of the world one small step closer to fruitation.
What is more, if you allow players to volluntarily craft cursed items you open a big can of worms. Some of those cursed items are so cheap, that certain players are more then willing to suffer the minor set-backs of the items compared to the benefits. The backbiter spear is one of the prime examples I heard most often about.
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