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Author
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Breakgate
Mortal
(11/20/03 5:59 am)
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ToEE computer game
Hi folks,
i don't know if this has come up yet... Several of my players have picked up the ToEE computer game. I haven't played it myself. Is it safe to let them play it? I know it's based on the original module but it seems at least possible to me that they incorporated some stuff of RttToEE in there.
Can anyone tell me?
cheers
Breakgate
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Roland the red
Memunite
(11/20/03 7:13 am)
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Re: ToEE computer game
1. They will know the layout of the Original temple and the Lowest level which leads to the node. They will know about nodes.
2. They may get the idea to wear robes of one temple to get around...
3. Oh yeah, and the secret tunnels to below the temple...
Neither of these are particularly bad, and I wouldn't sweat it. Having the players pose as denizens of one temple or another is typically encouraged anyway, and knowing the layout of the Greater Temple (in the ruined temple dungeons) is hardly a big deal. Just warn them that things ARE different and not to expect things to match 1-1...
That being said, the biggest problem is the secret tunnels leading below the original temple...astute players will look for them. If they are looking for 'em early (hobgoblin lair period) have an ettin or three guard the well and/or the tower. At higher levels, they probably NEED to get in, so don't punish them for not searching, let it slide.
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msherman
Kalkydrite
(11/20/03 7:44 am)
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Re: ToEE computer game
In my game, one player owned a copy of the original module, and I made his character spend at least one skill point on either K: Local or K: History. You might want to do the same for any player who plays the video game. Once they've got the skill to back it up in game, you don't have to worry about player/character knowledge boundaries any more, and you can use the skill to justify dropping any extra hints you want to. In game, he justified it as being the nephew of a ranger who fought at Emridy Meadows.
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Ishtarnia
Mortal
(11/20/03 8:24 am)
Reply
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Re: ToEE computer game
I have one player in my game that has finished the computer game and he is proving to be D*:N annoying. Last session he spent a serious portion of game time complaining that in the computer game he could do this, or pointing out how my rulings did not fit with the computer game mechanics. Its even worse as we are playing 3.25 (mix of 3.5 and 3.0 rules), I have hopefully solved this problem by talking to him during the week and asking him to keep quiet and not spoil it for the others, after all the computer game was meant to be played with multiple save points a luxury that the party don’t have….
I suspect that he also has the module as he seems to be able to know what goes where =) will be fixed soon as I intend to replace the CRM =) that should fix him.
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ZansForCans 
Cherub
(11/20/03 10:41 am)
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Re: ToEE computer game
It certainly up to you as a DM, but there are plenty of NPCs in Hommet in RttToEE that would likely know just about everything they find out in the game. They were involved in the process themselves and personally knew the adventurers that brought down the ToEE the last time. Some of my players remember fragments of ToEE from long ago, but none remember any serious content or names. This is a great option to introduce them!
I'm fortunate that we are just starting the CRM now, so it's less of an issue. I've been encouraging them to play it since it introduces them to the historical names that they will encounter. The one player who is most of the way through it has been enjoying the run-ins with the NPCs in the computer game that match those he encountered in early RttToEE. I've warned them that there are some differences in various outcomes, so they shouldn't assume any particular event in the game applies to our campaign. In a few cases (e.g., Thrommel) I've reminded them of some historical bits on our campaign site that might elucidate the differences.
Unfortunately, I can't play it right now since I'm a hard-core Mac holdout (who has little time for games anymore anyway, which helps  ), but I have gotten a tour and it looks spectacular. Sigh!
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arcane12
Memunite
(11/20/03 11:53 am)
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Re: ToEE computer game
I have played though it myself (the PC game) and I can say that it does not give too much away. Another thought for the secret enterance is that it does not really give you a good idea in the computer game where it is - I think it comes up out of a well on its own map in the vicinity. The well could be 300-500 feet away (or more) from the temple. Considering the size of the place finding it without any clues to follow (tracking the giant tracks) would be hard. Also at the point when they first get there no-one should be at the well so no tracks  And no excavation so even IF they find it it leads to a caved in area.
Persona: Obviously they will recognise names such as Thrommel (maybe), Hedrack, Zuggtmoy, Iuz, Farilinth, Zert, and a few others (like the 1/2 Orc assassin in the recovered temple area). Most of these guys won't be a problem (gee the leader of the outer fanes is Hedrack - he's still kicking around??) but with a few it might be good have them lie about their name until they attack the party Also the Hireable NPC's (and bad guys in Hommlett) are all different so no problems there.
Another thing to remember is the ending of the game depends on what they do. I ran through with an evil party and killed Thrommel for Fragarack (doh! couldn't use it! :/ ) so I got a different slide to what happens if you don't find him (he is never found after the battle of Emiready Meadows rumors of nasty things happening to him). In your players game it is likely they will kill many of the NPC's that are still alive in RttToEE, and do things that didn't happen.
Basically apart from the general idea of what happened, more or less, with the original temple things will be quite different. One bit is the moathouse. The map is VERY similar (but different monsters) so be careful. The map for the recovered temple is very similar too, but as only parts of it have been excavated it can be hard to get your bearings. All in all it's not too bad
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msherman
Kalkydrite
(11/20/03 2:09 pm)
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Re: ToEE computer game
Just to follow on to my previous point about simply requiring a knowledge (local or history) skill, keep in mind that RTTTOEE was designed as a nostalgia trip for people who had played the original back in the day when we had to roleplay up hill, in both directions. The parts of the Return that reuse info from the original are, for the most part, designed to not be broken if the players already know them.
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 Siobharek 
Cherub
(11/21/03 1:32 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: ToEE computer game
Also, remember that the secret tunnel is right there to be found under the rebel hobgoblins' tower, and that the tunnel to the lower level hasn't been excavated when the characters arrive there first (before going to the CRM).
As to the player who may have the module. Depending on whether he's a true friend, ask him straight out, and if he denies it, make some minor alterations to the module. If he complains, boot him.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
Breakgate
Mortal
(11/21/03 3:53 am)
Reply
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Re: ToEE computer game
Tnx guys!
I probably should have said this earlier: my party is in Rastor at the moment and they're about to go to the CRM so Hommlet won't be a problem. They've also already found the secret entrance to the temple (and found out that it's blocked).
The main thing I was worried about was that the game-developers (how do you call those?) might have decided to skip ahead and include the cult of Tharizdun in the story. That would ruin most of the rest of my (and i assume anyone's) campaign.
Luckily they didn't do that but it seems that they incorporated at least SOME RttToEE material in there 'cause if remember correctly Thrommel wasn't in the original ToEE.
cheers
Breakgate
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Siobharek
Cherub
(11/21/03 4:11 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: ToEE computer game
Nope, no Tharizdun references in the adventure. ToEE the computer game is - AFAIK - as close a computerization of the original module as possible.
Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. |
msherman
Kalkydrite
(11/21/03 7:01 am)
Reply
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Re: ToEE computer game
Thrommel was in the original. In the original, he was captured by the badguys, and held prisoner in the ToEE dungeon. He was held in stasis dolled up to _look_ like he was a vampire, but he really wasn't; if awoken, he'd wander back to Furyondy and reward the party with baronies and riches.
Making Thrommel a _real_ vampire in the Return is one of the inside jokes for old players that this module is full of. That's actually a good test of your questionable player's honesty; if he's only going by the old module, he won't beleive that Thrommel is a real vampire.
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 Monte Cook
Yeah, you know
(11/21/03 11:20 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: ToEE computer game
Quote:
The parts of the Return that reuse info from the original are, for the most part, designed to not be broken if the players already know them.
100% true.
Monte
http://www.montecook.com |
Breakgate
Mortal
(11/22/03 7:46 am)
Reply
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Re: ToEE computer game
Quote:
Thrommel was in the original. In the original, he was captured by the badguys, and held prisoner in the ToEE dungeon. He was held in stasis dolled up to _look_ like he was a vampire, but he really wasn't; if awoken, he'd wander back to Furyondy and reward the party with baronies and riches.
My mistake...
cheers
Breakgate
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DestyNova1
Memunite
(11/22/03 2:34 pm)
Reply
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ToEE game
Something that dissapoints me a lot, is that there are very little masterwork items for enchanting, and a number of weapons are not available unless you specificly focus on them during creation9Such as dwarven axes) Also, don't bother using slings, since no new supplies are offered once they are used up(Something the Baldur's Gate series did, is offer unlimited amounts of non-magical items)
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GibberingDM
Tolling Bell Cultist
(12/28/03 1:06 am)
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Re: ToEE game
I'll even go a step further and recommend that one or more of your players take a stab at the ToEE computer game (if they're the PC gaming type, naturally). As everyone else has noted, the common material is mostly the Hommlet NPCs and locales - critical plot points, motivations, and so on are 100% different between ToEE (PC) and RttToEE (deadtree).
RttToEE players running ToEE should build a great foundation for your Hommlet NPC interactions, understand a few more of the in-jokes, and come up with some humorous misunderstandings as well ("Elmo? I thought all he could do was say was 'elo, pretty lady' and wander around drunk...").
--GDM
Rurik has been killed! "You bastards!"
PS - re: masterwork items in ToEE (PC) - there's a fan plug-in (google "Circle of Eight") that adds a "masterwork" choice to the smith dialog trees).
EDIT: "of" - remember the "of", darn it!
Edited by: GibberingDM at: 12/28/03 1:09 am
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blakwind
Tolling Bell Cultist
(12/30/03 1:00 pm)
Reply
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Re: ToEE computer game
The ToEE computer game improved my RttToEE campaign by filling in the backstory in an unconventional way.
The timing was ideal. One of my players played through the computer game just before the characters defeated the Outer Fane and returned to Hommlet to assault the Recovered Temple.
At Hommlet, that character had a long discussion with Y'Dey, where she shared her full account of the defeat of Zuggtomoy. I elected to do that scene "off-camera", and encouraged the player to treat most knowledge from the computer game as character knowledge from Y'Dey. I warned him that Y'Dey's memory was fallible (I changed some stuff), and that some events that were possible in the computer game didn't happen in Y'Dey timeline (the discovery and rescue of Prince Thrommel, for example). My only demand was that he present that knowledge in-character. For example,
- "Y'Dey said that there was a secret tunnel in an old well somewhere around here. I wonder if we can find it."
NOT
- "This one time, in the computer game, blah blah blah."
I also played the game through myself. It really is a lot of fun, and I highly recommend it for DMs of RttToEE.
Another backstory option to consider is Thomas Reid's Temple of Elemental Evil novel. The novel has been discussed in previous threads in this forum.
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