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Shazzbot
Mortal
(11/24/03 8:35 am)
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!!!THE BEST THREAD EVER!!! not realy, just another questio
I planed on running RTTOEE with my players when they were 4th level. However, after one of my players anoyed me for several weeks, I let him run an adventure he had written, a week or two before I ran RTTOEE. The long and the short of it is, he got a little to enthusiastic dishing out experience and now my PCs are level 6. I calculate they should actually be low level 5 so I could rule that the PCs level back down to level 5 but that would piss them off and the adventure is still designed for 4 level 4 characters. What do you guys think I should do? (I have 4 players btw)
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 Infiniti2000
Cherub
(11/24/03 8:58 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: !!!THE BEST THREAD EVER!!! not realy, just another ques
One point of future advice, NEVER let a player run an adventure for himself and the other players. I would personally force them back to low 5th, no matter how much it pisses them off, and remove any extra treasure that the player gave them. The only other alternative would be to have them create new characters. Tell them the truth. The player ruined the game. If you try to go on as things stand now, it will just ruin the adventure, and RttToEE, all 1-2 years of gaming, will be far less enjoyable.
If you really want to continue as is, try Banewarrens instead, a bigger meatgrinder IMO.
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Narben
Mortal
(11/24/03 10:21 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: !!!THE BEST THREAD EVER!!! not realy, just another ques
Run them through the campaign but adjust the initial encounters. Big U can be a lot more deadly then he is. His fight is deliberately nerfed to allow lvl 4 players to tackle him. Take the gloves off.
Or treat the moathouse as if the players had alerted the bad guys already and the dragon never appeared, when they get there the place is empty apart from Festrath and the grell in area 32, (the adventure calls for the undead to remain but you could remove them too to lessen xp gain). You'll need to fudge some of the clues ie the bodies belonging to Big U with the elder eye symbols and ochre robes. If you want the dragon encounter left in have Big U turn up as the party is leaving, suddenly they're the ones trapped in the moathouse 
This should leave the party reaching Nulb at lvl 6 which is about the right level
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Ishtarnia
Mortal
(11/26/03 5:28 am)
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Re: !!!THE BEST THREAD EVER!!! not realy, just another ques
I was under the impression that XP was pretty much self correcting if a high level party meets a low level encounter don’t get much of a challenge and they get fewer XP so in the end it all balances out. I would be tempted to remove more things from the moat house to further lessen the XP.
You might also consider boosting big U it would not take too much to get a TPK and when raised the PCs would be level 5….. You could then have big U go join the hobgoblins…..
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ZansForCans 
Cherub
(11/26/03 8:13 pm)
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Re: !!!THE BEST THREAD EVER!!! not realy, just another ques
And as quite a few have recommended here before, it's dangerous to start boosting, especially on a global scale (like the whole moathouse). Instead, if you want to increase the challenge to avoid them cake-walking through to Nulb, consider doing something that makes the encounter harder without really rewarding them quantitatively. The XP will work itself out in a level or two worth, as Ishtarnia points out.
One of the best ideas that I've seen suggested before is to max out the hp of the underpowered creatures. Another is to increase the tactical advantage of the foes, either by creating a way for them to gain information about the party or (in the case of the Moathouse) to simply be much better prepared for an invasion, whatever the reason (invent one--maybe big U is good enough). Move some of the creatures around to create bigger fights (or make them decide to retreat to allies very quickly) and allow the clerics & spell casters to support for a few rounds rather than being on the front lines right away in solo encounters.
When you get to the CRM, the entry areas can be changed from their unalert status pretty easily since Monte gives rules for how they will react under different situations. If your party is 6+ level at that point, again come up with a reason why they are actually watching for intruders and make them work at the entry instead of (typically, for most parties) getting a huge surprise advantage. The XP you award will be the same, but they will be kept on their toes for the harder stuff later and will still have to work to get further in the plot.
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Shazzbot
Mortal
(11/28/03 10:50 am)
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Thanks, and by the way...
Thanks a lot guys , btw, how long did this dventure take to run? I know it is prety darn big, but I'd quite like to know how long it took people depending on how often their group meets. Also, what is big u's chalenge rating? (Amazon are being unusualy slow in delivering the book.)
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arcane12
Memunite
(11/28/03 1:51 pm)
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Re: Thanks, and by the way...
I am guessing (from what I have heard and what has happened so far) 18-24 months. Depends on the party and how much they are willing to leave uncompleted behind them. (and the risks they want to take).
It is worth every minute! I am running two groups through simultaneously, and plan on running a third group through once those two are over.
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Kenmis 
Mortal
(11/28/03 5:32 pm)
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Re: Thanks, and by the way...
Personaly, I think the self correcting nature of the CR system will work this problem out for you in no time, but if you want to make things a bit tougher, as these guys have mentioned, there's quite a bit you can do.
Big U is a real bastard, and if you play him tough and ruthless you'll have no problems putting the fear of DMs into your players. Also, in the CRM, use the "correct" stats for the Huge Howler (found in the erratta post, i believe). Suddenly that encounter becomes very, very deadly.
As also mentioned, NPC's that are prepared are not any higher in CR, but are far, far more challanging than NPC's you catch by surprise. The Old Mill, Moathouse, and Abandondoned Temple encounters can all be increadibly challanging if you make the NPC's well prepared and give THEM the surprise round.
One other thing to think about: Beads of Force. These are nasty, nasty little items that are often overlooked. One bead of force in the Old Mill very nearly lead to a TPK. As it stands from what you've said, things are still firmly in your control, and actualy gives you a chance to show your player how to REALLY handle challanging the players without flooding them with XP and loot.
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Shazzbot
Mortal
(11/29/03 12:29 pm)
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Re: Thanks, and by the way...
What are those bead of force things? A RttToEE item or one in the DMG i over looked?
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