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Author
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Comment
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WarrenWright
Memunite
(12/9/03 8:14 am)
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Near total party kill in the Water Temple
What a surprise (to me)!
My basic assumption as the PCs started on the water temple was that they would walk through it without a problem...and they did, nearly.
They had previously scouted the whole complex with arcane eye, giving them the layout and much info on the present villains.
The eye also showed them the secret entrance near the water naga.
They parlayed with the naga (against their usual style of blast first, question later), and she pushed them to take the water keys and go after the nagas in the outer fane.
They then took the temple by surprise, using judicious silence spells and invis. sphere to move unnoticed, and then take out the guard rooms and the priests one by one.
So they entered the Altar Room with no priests present there...piece of cake right?
Not after half the party flew into the room (paladin flying mount and fly spells), and the other half (cleric, bard, ranger) used water breathing and came into the area underwater!
Enter 3 LARGE SKUM, who proceeded to grapple the bard, attack the ranger and the ranger's large wolf animal companion.
The cleric brilliantly casts Control Water, lowering the water depth to only 1 inch throughout the whole alter area, but by then it was a bit late.
The Skum kill the bard, grapple the cleric, kill the wolf. The kuo-toa monk and the kuo-toa fighters move into the room, and make for the horns on the alter.
The party wizard fireballs the monk and the kuo-toa a couple of times, but doesn't kill them all, and the horns are blown, summoning the huge water elemental.
The huge water elemental really isn't much of a factor, as the whole party (the ones still alive anyway) have protection from evil up....except for the ranger cohort, who goes down a few rounds later to the 207 HP huge water elemental (even after the elemental spent several rounds wasting attacks trying to reach those protected from evil).
End result:
ranger, cleric, bard, rougue/illusinist killed. paladin and illusionist surviving.
The paladin and illusionist bagged up the bodies (bags of holding), and got out of dodge, as they couldn't take out the water elemental alone, and the water elemental couldn't hurt them either (prot evil).
Amazing how party choices (dividing the party and putting bad swimmers underwater) can totally change the scale of a combat!
Warren
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 Caedrel
Kalkydrite
(12/9/03 8:31 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Near total party kill in the Water Temple
Nice - I agree that the Water Temple is the toughest temple in many ways...
The Air and Earth temple are pretty straight up fights (although changing Uskatoth's pets into a fiendish swarm, thereby making it immune to weapons, was great  ) - thanks guys!)
The Fire Temple makes it tougher on melee fighters with the platform in the middle, but only a little bit.
Water, though, and its attendant restrictions in the environment are going to take a lot of parties out of their comfort zone and make them work for the victory...  Especially with all these kuo toa who can see moving invisible objects, thereby negating the rogue's invisible sneak attack...
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Cordo Crowfoot
Cherub
(12/9/03 10:52 pm)
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Re: Near total party kill in the Water Temple
Yeah those skum are nasty. They forced my group of two level 9 and two level 10 PCs to retreat.
They didn't have too much problem with the environment as they were smart about casting fly spells and dimension dooring everyone directly to the altar. Keleshein summoned the air elemental with Oomkaan but she was slain almost immediately afterwards before she could do anything else by the dual wielding improved invisible rogue.
Oomkaan was also killed but Nilbool lived and is surely estatic about being the new head of the water temple.
As I did with the air elemental, I ruled the water elemental was called rather than summoned, so Protection from Evil had no effect.
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Infiniti2000
Cherub
(12/10/03 8:06 am)
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ezSupporter
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Re: Near total party kill in the Water Temple
I agree that the WT is deadly. I have six PC's, all 9-10th level. In the first battle I killed one (sea hag, double failed save thanks to the ability focus), and the others retreated leaving the monitor and the elemental alive. In the second battle, the monitor and elemental flanked the fighter, with the monitor stunning the fighter 3 rounds in a row. At the end of the fighter the fighter and the remaining WT forces were dead.
Caveat: I applied the corrupted template to the monitor, so he was much tougher. However, I used poorer tactics than I could have with the water elemental, though I did have Kelashein use silence on it.
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deafdungeonmasterRIT
Cherub
(12/10/03 8:36 am)
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hmm
why is Water Temple tougher than Fire Temple?
How is Fire Temple is more powerful than Water Temple?
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WarrenWright
Tolling Bell Cultist
(12/11/03 1:01 pm)
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Re: hmm
My group has now faced down (and decimated) the air temple (twice), the earth temple, D'Gran's bridge complex, both entrances, and the Water Temple.
The battle against a prepared force led by D'Gran (twice...they retreated the first time) was probably the most strategic battle for both the players and myself.
The air temple followed in strategically interesting battles.
The earth temple was a bit more spread out, making fights a bit easier, but allowing more roleplay as well (one of the earth mephits, who looked like a winged stone dwarf, had the party half-convinced that he was the last remnant of the dwarves of old, cursed to guard that portion of the crater, and that they should leave him and his 'people' in peace).
The water temple was a walk in the park, except for the altar room, which, even totally unprepared, was at the same time the least strategically interesting and most dangerous battle to date.
It was little more than straight hack and slash, save for the brief moment where the party made some effort to stop the kuo-toa streaming towards the 2 horns (and failed), but killed more than half the party off.
They are lucky I didn't rule the water elemental was "called", as mentioned by someone else, or it would have been a total party kill. Easily.
With 2 party members left, plus a cohort (out of 5 members and 2 cohorts), they still had a not-quite dead skum kicking around, plus a 207 HP water elemental that had taken all of about 12 points of damage.
Warren
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Infiniti2000
Brother of Venom
(12/11/03 1:42 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: hmm
"one of the earth mephits, who looked like a winged stone dwarf, had the party half-convinced that he was the last remnant of the dwarves of old, cursed to guard that portion of the crater, and that they should leave him and his 'people' in peace"
That is absolutely a brilliant idea! Where were you a year ago? Sheesh! I would have loved to use that.
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paulpage
Crimson Coil Cultist
(12/12/03 4:31 am)
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Re: hmm
I have to admit my party very nearly walked through the water temple unscathed with a 7th level barbarian/fighter taking out all three of the large scum due to rolling a total of 4(!) critcal hits in a row with a dagger while power attacking.
It wasn't until they decided to blow the horn and ended up with the half-ogre fighter turning on the party due to the insanity along with the water elemental turning up.
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Cordo Crowfoot
Deathmantle Cultist
(12/12/03 7:39 am)
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Re: hmm
... that ... arg don't leave me hanging.
"They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came... They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits" China Mieville, Perdido Street Station |
Rasalom
Tolling Bell Cultist
(12/17/03 2:13 am)
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Water Temple
The Water Temple also game my group its hardest fight, mainly because of the water elemental. It drowned the sorcerer, and almost everyone else got caught in its whirlpool ability. Only thing that saved them was when the monk dumped a half-dozen vials of holy water into the whirlpool to kill it.
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Infiniti2000
Brother of Venom
(12/17/03 4:52 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: Water Temple
Everyone in my group had water walking or fly, so the whirlpool ability never got used. Most won't think of holy water, either, because they are not used to elementals being evil. Rasalom, did you use any particular description to get the party to monk to think that way? That would be a big help. I probably failed to describe the elemental appropriately.
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Rasalom
Tolling Bell Cultist
(12/18/03 2:53 am)
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Re: Water Temple
The monk in question had taken the prestige class Shintao Monk, so they were capable of casting Detect Evil at will like a paladin. The elemental detected as evil, so she used all the holy water she had.
I did describe the water elemental as looking rather murky, with odd-coloured waters flowing through it like scummy water or sewage. That is probably what instigated her using Detect Evil on it.
There was one or two potions of water breathing in the party, but I do not think any of them had water walk or fly. I do not believe it was on the sorcerer's list of known spells, and I do not think the druid had any prepared. There were no other wizards or clerics in the party.
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