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Brother of Venom
(12/13/03 12:21 pm)
"4. What to do with those OOC tpk remarks?"

The only thing you can do, which is to talk to the player about it. Whether you do it in private or in the open is up to you. From what it seems like here, the player has a strong personality, so you might consider making it a group thing, as the remaining players will likely back you up.

Most importantly, however, DO NOT let this just continue, hoping it will get better. IT WILL NOT.

No amount of "explanation" will justify the Pal1/SorX combo. It is powergaming, minmaxing pure and simple. And, like I said, nothing wrong with that in of itself, but it is a clearly a clash of styles and the player likely feels that you are cramping his style.

Fwiw, I started with 7 players up till the CRM and have had 6 solid players since. They are by no stretch of the imagination under the recommended loot allowance. In fact, I'd say they are above it (probably at 125%). They are, however, very loot conscious and craft most of their own stuff.

Ebon Hand Cultist
(12/13/03 1:32 pm)

Taking level 1 paladin was always a cheesy character type but it's relatively easy to fix. Judging by the way the player seems to be acting I seriously doubt he's playing within the lawful good code of conduct required to maintain his paladin abilities. Fallen paladins don't get to use divine grace.

Tolling Bell Cultist
(12/13/03 2:53 pm)
I'll give some short opinions on the first three questions, and a longer opinion on question four. All replies are implicitly prefaced with IMHO, and followed by YMMV. :)

1. If PCs sell everything to get their customized equip, does it mean it's perfectly ok and expected for PCs to have 50-60% of the dmg pc wealth? Does this mean CR 's are still ok with the lower eq value of the PCs?
Yes and yes. I believe the CRs will still be OK. The PCs have equipment of lower cash value, but that equipment is highly optimized to the strengths of the particular characters.

And yes, wands, scrolls, potions, and other consumables definitely count. ;)

2. If none of the PC's play rogues or choose item crafting feats, the PCs inevitably get lower loot than the dmg pc wealth tables. Does this mean the DM has an obligation to add in more loot into Monte's RttToEE campaign so the PC's are more in par with the challenges?
The DM has no obligation to boost the loot, but it's good to be aware of the wealth discrepancy, and you may want to consider adapting other aspects of the story. In my own campaign (5 PCs plus NPCs), I left the module as is, but spliced in a few city/town/side trek adventures for variety. Those sidequests were developed around the strengths, weaknesses, and interests of the PCs, and allowed me to tweak the loot.

Treasure and challenges in RttToEE are very balanced -- exemplary is not to strong of a word. I wouldn't mess with it.

3. The party got 3 greater arrows of slaying from varachan. Is it normal for a player to say, "I think the shopkeep is low-balling me in rastor (or the orc-town). I know I can get these 3 greater arrows of slaying for much more in verbobonc."?
Sure its normal. In fact, it's very rational and believable behaviour to want to get the best price possible. That's OK. However, under the circumstances (the orc camp), you were very generous. IMC, outside of a major city, there would be no demand for magic items unless the buyer had a specific application in mind.

If I were Varachan, I'd be mad. He gave them that stuff to help defeat Hedrack and the Doomdreamers. Your players did the D&D equivalent of pawning off all their wedding presents for cash.

4. What to do with those OOC tpk remarks?
This is a huge problem that needs to dealt with promptly.

If I was DMing this guy, those remarks would really take the wind out my sails. I think of myself as part storyteller, and part referee of the common story that the players and DM tell together. Those remarks suggest a competition of DM vs. player, (or, in fact, one particular player vs. the DM). My D&D games aren't Chess or Risk or Warhammer 40k -- there's no winner or loser. Everyone wins when everyone has fun.

That bombardment of negative, even derisive, OOC talk would gradually sap my energy. Over time, I would enjoy DMing less and less, and eventually it would become a chore. At that point, the game isn't fun anymore. I know -- I've been there.

I would talk to the player away from the gaming table, listen intently to his issues, and level with him about mine. If we didn't connect, I'd ask him to leave the game. He would have more fun with a different DM, and I would be a better DM to my players if he wasn't there.

I'm sorry if that turned into a rant, but your post hit close to home. Best of luck sorting this out. Let us know what happens!

Edit: fixed a couple of typos.

Edited by: blakwind at: 12/13/03 2:58 pm
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