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Author
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Comment
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Ordos1
Tolling Bell Cultist
(1/6/04 8:13 pm)
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Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
Hi,
I've been playing RttToEE for quite a while now -- and I think (i hope!) that my players are enjoying it. Here is the situation:
Human Wizard (5)
Elf Sorcerer (5)
Dwarf F2,B1,Ro2 (5)
Elf Rogue (5)
Human Fighter (5)
1/2-Elf Cleric of Correlon (5)
They just managed to get the CRM -- entrance room. One (and only one) of the players (1/2 Elf) is wearing the necklace of the EEE and is doing all the talking -- perhaps waying TOO much (mentioning Hommlet, for example -- which the module states is not a good idea -- but in any case). The 2 elves are invisible. The gnolls asked them to stop since they didn't have the robes. The gnoll was walking away to get Mereclar, but they didn't stop moving around so the gnoll screamed for help and rang the bell. They killed the gnolls in fairly short order (one elf became visible after casing magic missile).
This act is now bringing just about everyone out of the woodwork -- the human and gnolls archerers, Mereclar, Wormspike, and Howler. The 20 or so humans in #9 and #10 are also gearing up but that will take a bit longer. So far the PCs are not making any DANGEROUS moves, but I fear they will soon loose their cool and a fight will break out. Also, since the PCs seem bent on dropping EVERY single name they have discovered up till now, they will eventually say something stupid. Also, even if the PCs give a 1/2 decent performance, I figure Mereclar will not let them go until Terreygit(?) confirms (who would most likely also be on his way after the bell tolled). When Terreygit gets there, he'll know for SURE they are bluffing.
This being said, just about EVERYONE will be in that room in the next 3-4 rounds and I don't think 6 PCs will be able to stand the pounding.
So i'm looking for advice as to how to avert a TPK without having to compromise the fact that the PCs plan (despite some relatively good planning) does not cut the proverbial cheese  ? Does one suggest capturing them? If so, where do i put them? Do I let them pass, despite them not having the best plan to get inside?
I figure while Mereclar talks to them, he can drop hints they are not wearing temple garb (so the PCs know in the future to plan a bit better), etc.
Any ideas anyone?
Thanks
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Cordo Crowfoot
Deathmantle Cultist
(1/6/04 8:30 pm)
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
I'm confused, on one hand the alarm has been rung and they have killed the gnoll guards, but you are also intimating that Mereclar and Terreygit might be talking to them. Need more clarity on the situation.
"They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came... They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits" China Mieville, Perdido Street Station |
Helderik
Tolling Bell Cultist
(1/7/04 12:20 am)
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
Yes... Cordo is right.. If they kill the gnolls, Mereclar and Terrenygit will attack the PC's right away. I guess the opportunity to start a conversation is gone now and the big fight is about to start. (if not, please do explain...)
The fight is pretty tough... My PCs were defeated first time, and only just managed to win during their second attempt to conquer the main gate (Terrenygit retreated with some gnolls, humans and zombies). They realised that an overwhelming force guarded the main gate, so they hired some mercenaries.
My most important point of advice would be to give them an opportunity to retreat, either outside, or maybe even down the mines towards the ettin (and don't pursuit them very actively). If your players see an overwhelming force, they should get the message and run like madmen towards the exit. If they don't get the point, try hinting a little bit towards retreat. This should be their best option for surviving the encounter. After that, they will return better prepared, because they will know what they are facing.
You can read more about the battles my PCs had with the main gate forces over here:
My campaign webpage...
Check the story section, I guess around chapter 11 and 12
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Entifidich
Ebon Hand Cultist
(1/7/04 12:26 am)
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
Hi Ordos,
my players had that encounter this sunday as well.
The party consisted of:
Human Sor L5
Human Ranger L6
Human Monk L6
Human Druid L5/Ranger L1
Halfling Rogue L6
Dwarven Fighter L6
They "sneaked" (the dwarf stayed in the back so as not to make too much noise) to he door. The rogue opened it slightly and told with signs what she saw. She sneaked in and killed one of the gnolls, the sor. killed another one with a Magic Missile and and the druid almost killed a third one. Who could ring the alarm.
The next round, the human and gnoll archers arrived and on the third round, The ogre, howler, h-e ranger Terrengyit(?) and 12 zombies arrived.
Result of the battle:
The first round that the ogre arrived, he hit the sor for a massive 17dmg (Sor 1HP left). She could stay out of reach of the other creatures afterwards so she could blast'em away with MM and Scorching rays.
The dwarf got reduced to -3HP after 3 rounds battling the howler and the h-e ranger who the concentrated on the druid after putting the dwarf down.
The druid got killed after 2 attacks from the ranger and howler.
In the meanwhile, while the druid was being killed and the dwarf put down, the Monk and the halfling rogue concentrated on the Ogre and the party's ranger was keeping all the zombies at bay killing at least one every round.
The Troglodyte Cleric didn't like it and tried to blind the ranger (missed) then 2X command fall (succeeded), used up his bane, his CLW (because the sor kept attacking that cleric with missiles.
Final count, 1 dead Druid/Rgr and 1 dwarf reduced to -3HP.
Since this battle was quite tough on them, I decided to keep the rest as backup for next time they come back.
Since the h-e ranger and the howler concentrated on the dwarf, he was reduced to -3 after 3 (or 4) rounds.
If you don't want a TPK, I suggest you don't let everybody attack. Just be sure that the party gets hurt plenty in the first battle, otherwise they might continue exploring the other rooms and get killed because of lack of Healing or spells.
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grimbold
Tolling Bell Cultist
(1/7/04 12:45 am)
Reply
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
I also think that the party´s chance of "talking their way out" of the situation had passed when they killed the gnolls.
As the alarm has been sounded by now, they should realize that they are in way over their heads and should flee.
IMC, the party was defeated and had to flee as well in their first assault on the gates:
Grimbolds campaign log
Don´t pull any punches on your party in this encounter - if they don´t learn how deadly the CRM can be now, they will not survive for long inside (unless you plan to protect them all the time, in which case your players will most likely not feel challenged by the adventure). In short, this is a good opportunity to teach them that this is indeed a dangerous adventure they are in.
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srmilich
Tolling Bell Cultist
(1/7/04 12:51 am)
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
The first room can be a bit of a pain. My party sure learned that the hard way.
I definitely agree with Cordo though, if his guards are being killed, Mereclar would not be feeling very chatty, combat is almost inevitable.
Are you using Monte's advanced howler, or the standard one from the MM? I mistakenly used the standard one, and it still killed one of my PC's. (I guess it also boils down to whether you are using 3 or 3.5, I think the howler is much nastier in the upgrade, but I don't have the books to check).
Mind you I hit them with everything I had and it would have been far worse had our party wizard not fireballed most of my guards to death. A TPK is very possible if your players don't consider fleeing as an option. Make it obvious to them that they don't have to fight to the death should everything go against them.
Maybe have Mereclar hold back, ensuring all his guards are deployed before entering combat himself (why risk his own life when he has grunts to do it for him?)  He could be supervising guards on the ballista, or ensuring that the howler and Wormspike are prepared to go out before him (if he is not going to ride the howler).
You could do the same with Terrenygit, sending out the zombies first, before engaging herself. Let the party deal with the mooks for a few rounds, see how they do. You may not even need the bosses to begin with, if the combat goes badly.
I would suggest playing it by ear, the whole idea is to wound the party badly, not wipe them out. Have Wormspike and Terrenygit try to scare the party away, so they realise flight is a valid option. And remember, taking prisoners is always an idea, Mereclar would want to report to his superiors who was attacking them and why. Dead opponents tell no tales. 
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Simon.
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Ordos1
Tolling Bell Cultist
(1/7/04 6:27 am)
Reply
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
Hi,
Thanks for the advice thus far -- its quite good.
To clarify (as requested), here is the reason why combat has not started outright...
1) The PCs killed the gnolls with no one else present.
2) One of the PCs is, at the least, wearing a necklace of the EEE and is pretending that the "stupid gnoll dogs" showed him disrespect and deserved to be killed (makes sense for an "evil person" to do something like that -- the party is not evil however -- they are just TRYING to act like bad guys and quickly finding an excuse for having killed 4 gnolls)
3) Since that story is uncorroborated, I'm not having the bad guys attack right away --but they are emerging from their respective rooms to surround just about everyone (will eventually preclude the use of a fireball) And obviously HIGHLY suspicous and waiting for someone inauthority to give them orders to attack.
4) In effect, the only reason i haven't done an all out attack is that ONE person is wearing the EEE symbol. But Terrenygit will surely see through the ruse, even is Mereclar MAY not.
Hope this clarifies.
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chicken in disguise
Tolling Bell Cultist
(1/7/04 5:53 pm)
Reply
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
So "panic and flee" remains a viable strategy for them? I fail to see the problem. Discretion > valor.
Brandon Aiken (a.k.a. da chicken) |
 Caedrel
Crimson Coil Cultist
(1/9/04 2:23 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
You could also make it clear in any dialogue with Mereclar that all the name dropping they're doing is meaningless to the guards and is, in fact, hurting the party's case... that should give them the hint that they're not quite approaching it right.
You could have Mereclar arrive earlier with the howler to challenge them and threaten them with the fact that his guards are going to be arriving "real soon now". If he were to arrive with his slavering howler, it should give the party pause.
Or you could have Wormspike arrive first and, in his ogre like way, give the party the hint that "I dunno who youse is talking about, but Mereclar is gunna sorts youse out real quick..."
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Cordo Crowfoot
Deathmantle Cultist
(1/9/04 6:59 am)
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
Ok, I understand the situation now.
Agreed that it would be best if Mereclar indicates they aren't ideally equipped to be trying subterfuge. In fact, I'd probably have the first thing he ask be "Where are their symbols?" And the rest will depend on the Half Elf's answer and bluff roll.
At 5th level with that many people they should be able to face Mereclar, Wormspike, the howler, and the human guards. (Well that is as long as you are using the non-boosted howler, which you really should as that was the power level it was playtested at.)
You can delay Terrenygit's arrival by having him show up on the outskirts of a fight, take in the situation while he starts to buff, then run back get the zombies, bolster the zombies, then order the zombies to start slowly shuffling towards wherever the players were. At that point you are probably look at 10 rounds or so.
"They were immediately and absolutely recognizable as adventurers. They were hardy and dangerous, lawless, stripped of allegiance or morality, living off their wits, stealing and killing, hiring themselves out to whoever and whatever came... They were scum who died violent deaths, hanging on to a certain cachet among the impressionable through their undeniable bravery and their occasionally impressive exploits" China Mieville, Perdido Street Station |
Ordos1
Tolling Bell Cultist
(1/10/04 2:55 pm)
Reply
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
Hi,
So we played it yesterday -- here is the result:
- PC Dwarf killed by Howler.
- PC Human fighter taken prisonner.
- Mereclar killed.
- 10 Human Warrior Guards killed (fireball)
- 4 Gnolls killed (various methods).
The party pretty much buried themselves when they started talking in Elven to each other and failed to notice that Mereclar is a 1/2-elf.... *sigh*....
It was a good fight. They decided to high-tail it when they saw a wave of zombies rush in.... and they know some guy in the background was casting some spells against the party (Terrenygit -- he was down the corridor)...
They're now running back to Rastor like a bunch of little girls (no offence implied to our female audience  ) to reconsider their lives as adventurers... they always get "contemplative" when someone bites the BIG ONE in the party... they'll come back though.. they always do...
Thanks for the info guys.
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Cordo Crowfoot
Deathmantle Cultist
(1/10/04 3:58 pm)
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Re: Possible TPK in the first room (need advice).
Sounds like they got off relatively lightly, I killed two PCs in that encounter (but used the boosted Howler). And now they have a lot of incentive to go after their friend in the earth temple.
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