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Ebon Hand Cultist
(1/16/04 6:15 am)
Take out those Maps, and give me a hand!
I am reposting this from the EnWorld Boards:

"Hey all:

I am about to try and build the Moathouse from T1 Village of Hommlet for my game group! I have been building terrain for about a year now with Plaster Blocks made from Castle Molds (

I'm pretty excited about making the castle. I hope to bring it to conventions and such and run Old style 1E adventures and such, as well as use it for my game group's run into the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.

I've been looking at the maps for a while, picturing in my head what I needed to do to create this small castle in 3d. That said, I'm a bit stumped, and would love some input from all you.

For reference, take a look at the top down map of the Castle Level 1 (Ruins of the Moathouse) the map for the "Dungeon level", and the illustration of the Moathouse on page 12.

Help me visualize what we see!

The first problem I have is that it appears that the dungeon level should (rooms 1-7 in the dungeon level map) should fit neatly underneath rooms 6-17 of the Top level.

The wings on the top are symetrical, both are 40 feet wide, by 50 feet long, yet in the dungeon section, one of them is 50 feet wide! Also the space beneath room 7 is 40 foot square, 10 feet longer in each direction! Also, if the dungeon is right below the upper level, should the stairs leading to room 6 upstairs, take up space in 1 in the dungeon?

Further: As I look at the picture on page 12, I can clearly see the the inner building is set INSIDE the curtain wall. i.e. the outwall of room 17 is not the curtain wall. But I can see in the picture the arrow slits that should be near room 17! Yet those arrow slits are illustrated for Room 17, NOT room 2 and 3 in the dungeon. This leads me to suspect that there is a 10 foot tunnel that runs AROUND the inner building! Yet, when we look at the illustration at the bottom the "Moathouse Ruins" Map, it shows that the Parapet is atop the wall, and access to those Arrow Loops is set back 10 feet. Also, if there is a 10 foot tunnel, that would reveal the secret passageway from room 17 to the dungeon. As you stare at that picture, it also drives home the point that those arrow loops are LOW in the wall, not higher up.

Silly details I know... But I'd appreciate thoughts and comments on how to make this 3d creation true to the original, while, obviously, having to make some changes.

Col_Pladoh, if your reading, please feel free to comment!

Thanks all!

Pat E"

I have gotten very little response from those folks. One posted suggested coming here. I am "about" to start the RttToEE, but frankly will base the 3d model off the original T1, here are the comments I posted at Enword about Monty's adventure:


I've reread the description for that secret passage:

****Spoiler Warning*****

The description in room 7 reads: "The Brigands are totally unaware of the secret door and staircase leading down to the the dungeons"

There is access from the dungeon to the outside, but that is a seperate sub level.

Thanks for the hint on the PC game... I'm downloading the demo now...

I hadn't reviewed the description of the Moathouse in RttToEE when I wrote this, I just took a quick look at a similar overhead shot, and the maps. The illustrator has definatley made "Changes" in the moathouse. The Cartographer has clearly made it appear that those arrow loops WERE accessable from those upper levels. that said, there are real changes in teh illustration (the square tower is a fully story taller, there are doors of some sort on ground level in the courtyard etc.

There is still the problem with the dungeon level being to wide on one side as well.

Please comment away!

Pat E"

I think there are some significant differences in teh way in which the artists recreated the Moathouse in RttToEE, but in any event, I am interested any the input of any of you as to how to take these different issues, and come to grips with what the moathouse "Really" looks like

Thanks for you helps!

Pat E

Crimson Coil Cultist
(1/18/04 3:53 pm)
Re: Take out those Maps, and give me a hand!
Hello Pat! I dunno if we can provide the level of precision you need if you're actually building the thing, but you never know...

I don't have T1-4 here with me at work, but I do recall that the picture of the Moathouse didn't seem to fit the description in the module itself... you're going to have to decide how to reconcile these, since artists basically get it wrong sometimes (as another example, the picture of the Fire Temple shows Tessimon with a demonic left arm instead of a right one, as described in the adventure)...

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