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Author
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Comment
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 Infiniti2000
Brother of Venom
(1/24/04 11:49 am)
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ezSupporter
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The Dreaming Stone
If the players kill the night hags within the dreaming stone, they might just 'rescue' the 7 Doomdreamers trapped within it. It's unlikely that those Doomdreamers (troglodyte, kuo-toa, half-orc, elf, and 3 humans) will be saved with wishes or miracles from the party, but they should have equipment. The party will want that equipment. Any chance someone wants to work up stats & stuff for these people?
Additionally, if they are 'rescued' perhaps Tharizdun himself will restore the Doomdreamers (re: 'interaction of a deity') and thus possibly provoking an interaction with the party. I suppose it's possible that other Doomdreamers have stripped them clean, but I find that highly unlikely.
Minor issue about the Vrock. Teleporting to the other side of the dreaming stone is pretty stupid. He will be quickly spotted and killed before even attempting to summon help. It would be better to teleport to level 4 or 5, enlisting help from the night hags.
More importantly, however, does one need to overcome the Spike's SR to summon/call monsters through it?
One more comment (for now) regarding the unhallow, do you think it would be out of line to replace the aid spell effect with death ward? IMO, death ward in such a dangerous place would be far more useful, but more expensive. What are your thoughts on this?
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Ordos1
Tolling Bell Cultist
(1/25/04 2:40 pm)
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The Dreaming Stone
Infiniti200 -- I see you've gotten far in the module. My guys are only at the gates of the CRM.
In any case, maybe i can throw in my 2 cents:
1) I personally would not give the PCs 'free' equipment on the Doomdreamers stuck inside the stone. I find that PCs need to 'earn' their keep. Give them a simple robe, and thats all... if anything, you can even make them naked...
2) I agree with you about the Vrock. I'm sure when the module was written, it was tweaked based on what the playtesters did. I see now problem making the Vrok do whatever you think is logical.
3) There is never really any mention about having to beat the SR to get into the Spike for conjuration. There is mention of teleport and the like. That being said, if one were to interpret the 'defintion' of teleportation, it states in the teleport spell that it works via movement in the Astral plane. If the spike blocks that -- well, you tell me -- does summoning occur via the Astral plane?? ... If so, then i would say yes, it DOES prevent monster summoning...
4) I agree -- i think Aid is cute, but i'm sure these guys are FAR better prepared than that... I always assume that 'higher-ups' always have many more resources at their disposal. The way i try to think of things is, "Would the PCs do it they had the financial means?". If the answer is yes, then i'd like the bad guys have it too...
Hope this helps.
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Infiniti2000
Brother of Venom
(1/25/04 7:39 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: The Dreaming Stone
My group is about to enter the Outer Fane (any @!$* day now), but I am ready ahead and prepping my stat blocks and BoVD enhancements for the Inner Fane and the Recovered Temple.
1. Yeah, I don't want to give them free equipment either, but I can't think of a reason why it would be gone. Let's say one of the party gets stuck and the others save him, does all of his equipment disappear? Maybe the reward for being brave enough to venture into the stone itself is recovering the items off Doomdreamers. Indeed, maybe they can be saved like Varachan?
3. I'd like to ask this in the Magic forum, but I can't think of a way. If anyone else can, please do so. For now, I'd say if you conjure/summon something that exists outside the spike, it must be the SR.
Thanks for the responses!
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Cordo Crowfoot
Deathmantle Cultist
(1/25/04 9:45 pm)
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reason for the equipment to be gone
If it was there in the first place, then the other doomdreamers may have stripped it off long ago "for the better of the cult".
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Grumgarr
Crimson Coil Cultist
(1/26/04 4:12 am)
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Re: reason for the equipment to be gone
I'm running the Black Spike at the moment.
First, there's no way I would hand out loot for the zero-challenge doomdreamers in the Dreaming Stone - they are completely helpless.
I imagine a dog-eat-dog scenario where the Doomdreamers gladly loot the lost. The hags look after the dreamers but they're definitely not in charge - they'd be mad (oh wait!  ) to challenge any Doomdreamer about looting...maybe the hags themselves have also looted the dreamers over the years. Given that the means to create some items of the cult (black thuribles, torches of revealing, incense) are now lost, there's no way the cult would leave this stuff on those few lost in their dreams of the Dark God - they never wake from this state. So any gear they might have had 'in life' is long gone, taken by their successors - they are CE after all.
I don't imagine the PCs can wake them, even if they wanted to.
On the SR front, I've allowed Astral Constructs, summoned beasties etc. The First and Third are armed up with Banishments and Dismissals (which might be intended for good Planar Allies) but I saw no reason to nerf one of the PCs outright (he's a Shaper Psion - mostly summons things).
Bear in mind though that all evil creatures in the Spike have a constant Protection from Good from the Unhallow which means - among other things - no summoned creatures can physically touch them unless they attack the summoned beasties. So summoning might work (summoned elementals might be evil and turn on their summoner  ) but summoning beasts to fight for you is going to be pretty spectacularly ineffective.
I've basically ruled that teleporting within the Black Spike is fine, if you're already inside, so the Vrock can teleport up to the stairs by the Triad's rooms and croak/use telepathy to tell them their 2 o'clock is here or whatever. I teleported him all over between levels.
He's just CR 9 by 3.5 rules so I buffed him with 4 levels of Fighter for a pretty nasty CR 13 (remember to use spores and screech and lots of Mirror Images, again and again, particularly when outnumbered )
So to sum up:
Doomdreamers lost in the stone - no treasure, no xp, nada but creepy flavour.
SR for teleporting - only if crossing the outer 'skin' of the Spike, and summoning works in my game - no reason why you couldn't call for an SR check in yours though, given the whole Astral argument. Have the Vrock mobile - he is the errand boy...sort of...with that whole Demon attitude.
Summoned monsters mostly nerfed regardless (natural weapons won't work due to Prot. Good) and elementals might well appear CE and mad as hell at the summoner. Bwa-ha!
That's my take
Grumgarr
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Cordo Crowfoot
Deathmantle Cultist
(1/26/04 3:40 pm)
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Re: reason for the equipment to be gone
On the other hand if your players are behind the average wealth and you want to catch them up, that might be a plausible way.
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Infiniti2000
Brother of Venom
(2/1/04 8:57 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Talisman of Pure Good
It is WAY too easy to get it. From my understanding, you can just tip the bowl over and pick up the talisman. Or, you could fish it out with a dagger or something. I can't believe that was Monte's intent. Was it? Was it really meant to be that easy? If so, why the black negative energy stuff then?
How do you guys plan to run that part, or how would you run it (if your party got to that area)?
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Taxman66
Crimson Coil Cultist
(2/2/04 8:13 am)
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Re: Talisman of Pure Good
The pure liquid evil is not there to 'guard' the talisman, it is there to pervert it.
I see no problem in letting them get it.
Taxman
"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin
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Cordo Crowfoot
Deathmantle Cultist
(2/2/04 4:57 pm)
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talisman
I dunno, I kind of felt the liquid was guarding it as well.
Otherwise I agree with I2K that it is too easy to get. And it's an extremely powerful item, especially in the context of the campaign.
IMC, Varachan hasn't filled my group in on the talisman's existance. When he does it will only be that he has heard rumors there is a talisman *somewhere* in the Inner Fane.
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Caedrel
Crimson Coil Cultist
(2/2/04 5:48 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: talisman
Agreed - I don't think this is the sort of info that Varachan would have detailed data on, so he could hint at it and that's about all.
I don't think the talisman is too easy to get - sure, you can just fish it out of the bowl, but it's in the sub levels of the Inner Fane, and if my memory serves me correctly, that place isn't any walk in the park!
It is a powerful item, but I don't know if it's "too powerful"... it'll be good against the doomdreamers, but only 6 of them (tops). You could take out Lareth and Maliskra, but not Imix with it...
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Infiniti2000
Brother of Venom
(2/2/04 7:13 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: talisman
It specifically mentions that Varachan knows "The location of the talisman of pure good (Sublevel 4) and the basics of how to get there." I might have spilled a little too much about what was guarding it, but as evidenced in my question above, I was a little confused.
This particular talisman has only 2 charges left. I can only assume that they will want to use it against the Champion, and maybe the First. I think I'm gonna describe the First has having a tatoo on his forehead, spelling out the letters T, P, and K. 
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Cordo Crowfoot
Deathmantle Cultist
(2/2/04 8:06 pm)
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...
Quote:
It specifically mentions that Varachan knows "The location of the talisman of pure good (Sublevel 4) and the basics of how to get there."
Yep, for my part I was very aware of that, but personally I think it is giving too much away for an item that lets them wipe their main enemies of the face of the earth without a save. I guess I'm just mean that way.
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Caedrel
Crimson Coil Cultist
(2/3/04 5:58 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: Yes, but
Their enemies DO get a Reflex save if the wielder isn't "exceptionally pure of heart and deed"... if your players know this, then it can act as a spur to heroic roleplay
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deafdungeonmasterRIT
Deathmantle Cultist
(2/3/04 8:03 pm)
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hmm
Additionally, if they are 'rescued' perhaps Tharizdun himself will restore the Doomdreamers (re: 'interaction of a deity') and thus possibly provoking an interaction with the party. I suppose it's possible that other Doomdreamers have stripped them clean, but I find that highly unlikely.
Interesting.. I think their standard equipment should be left on their body, especially their ritual equipments. I don't know if their eyes are closed, but I will describe their pupils as "utterly black" as something you have seen from "Event Horizon." Remember that movie? That may be a good comparsion when Dr. Weir met that lady. This will add the creepiness factor. I think you ask the right questions. Since their rank is doomdreamer, their equipments should be included. Doomdreamer is something that a lesser being (including Hedrack) will not dare to mess with and should have stuffs filled with BOVD equipments. You can change them from humans to varashan (evil human of BOVD) to add more flavors.
When they do wake up, their body should immediately shook as wiggle like a snake for several minutes until they stop. If a player choose to take a close look on it, their eyes gradually changing back to normal. How they wake up and behave is open to interpretation. It is possible that they will wake up, thinking that they are in another world. If the players are smart and dress in doomdreamers or EVEN more interesting, Varachan or Hedrack (if used shape changed) among those party, those doomdreamers will reveal what they saw in the dream. It is possible (again open to interpretation) that they may have a second thought about those whole things. By then, their con and strength scores should reduce due to lack of excercises.
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