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DM Dan76
Registered User
(2/27/02 8:27 am)
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A few questions.....
I have a few questions for the group here, but first let me tell you what my players have done so far.
They have cleared out the moathouse and explored about 90% so far, including the obelisk room. They have captured Gren, Ysslansh, Nierethi (who was recruited by the cult), and Grune (from the mill). They thoroughly questioned them all and turned them over to Elmo. Only Chat, Dunrat and Jaroo (whom they haven’t met yet) are the only cultists left, and are hiding out in the grove. The PC’s have traveled to Verbobonc to get 2 of their members resurrected (someone decided that the best way to escape the grell was to let go of the rope and have a “controlled” fall for 200’), and while they are there they want to do some research on what they have found so far.
They have both of the holy symbols (black triangle and the obex), the torch of revealing, the green mask, and the handouts (Dunrats letter, Festraths letter, and Geynor Ton’s Journal).
They know that the cultists have a place called the Temple of all Consumption near the town of Rastor and is either near or in a crater. They know Tal from Rastor supplied them wagons and will follow up that lead.
Gren spilled the beans to the group and told them about the excavation and about the Elder Elemental Eye and the destruction of the world bit. They have a fairly good understanding of the local history regarding the temple and the cult from the townsfolk, Y’dey, Burne and Rufus, and even from Gren giving the cult’s view on their history.
They identified the holy symbols of EEE and Tharizdun (I figured that if Ysslansh had the Obex, he worshiped Tharizdun, not the EEE. He spit out a curse at them using Tharizdun’s name. I may have been too generous with that bit of info), and want to get more info about these in Verbobonc.
So now here’s my questions
1- What is known about Tharizdun? I know that after Big T was imprisoned all evidence of his existence was destroyed, but we all know that some book or something would have survived right? Who would have this information and what would they reveal? The way I see it is that a few select high ranking clergy members know the name and a bit of the history but are not very willing to share it. It would be a name only whispered in shadows and a name that is feared. I am not really familiar with Greyhawk history but does that sound correct? Would that info be given out to a group a good adventures who are out to stop the evil cult?
2- What is the documented history of the first 2 uprisings of the Temple of Elemental Evil? There is the info at the begging of the book, but what else? My guys will be looking for maps of the temple, and information regarding what happened to the surviving cultists. They will want to know who was behind it and what connection they had with EEE and Tharizdun? Does this info exist? Where could they get if it does exist?
3- The group has decided that they want to try to destroy the obelisk. I know that there was a post regarding this a while ago, but I couldn’t find it. They will most likely try to take out the spot where the obelisk rests on the stone column. My guess is that I will let them try, but what should the results be? I will not let them destroy the obelisk, but should it have negative effects on the group? I may let them blow up the stone supporting pillar and have the obelisk remain where it is, floating in the air. Any other suggestions?
4- Is there any other info I can have my characters find while searching in Verbobonc? What about the crater ridge mines? Would there be any info on that mine or the dwarves who were driven out of there?
Any Bardic lore regarding any of this or of anything else that may benifit my group?
Thanks!
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Andorax
Registered User
(2/27/02 8:41 am)
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Re: A few questions.....
Remarkably thorough, your group. I'm impressed.
Any particular reason they went all the way to Verbobonc, with the Cannoness Y'Day capible of Raise Dead right there in Hommlet?
1: Very little is known about Tharzidun. They'll be lucky to produce any result besides "never heard of him" from most anyone. Those few knowledgable (and willing) to speak of it will only reveal that he was locked away ages ago, still is (because there's still a world left), and that there is no cult, there are no followers...because anyone who actually would worship/release Big T would have to be irrevokably insane.
2: Elmo, Y'Day, Burne and Rufus(and the now-deceased Otis) were the heroes of the original ToEE. They know the most about it of anyone. Any of them should be able to describe the general layout of the first floor, and dismiss questions about the lower levels as irrelevant, as the rest of the temple has collapsed completely. Besides, it's unlikely they have an actual map of the place, unless you go in for the idea that they drew one as they adventured (in which case it's probably framed and on a wall somewhere in the keep). You might try hunting down a copy of the original ToEE, hand-draw some rough maps of the levels on a parchmenty type paper, and have those available for handouts (if they can convince Burne, who has all the comforts he needs, to part with them).
3: Don't know where the old thread is (hopefully, someone else will dig it up), but I recall my suggestion. If they direct something at the obelisk itself, it's a no-go. If they direct something at the base, the obelisk will hang in mid-air, a violet light will pulse from the base up to the tip and back down again, and the stone beneith it will reform.
Possably toss D6/2d6 cold damage at the party as a "let it be" hint.
4: I'm operating on the assumption that the Dwarven residents of Rastor are the last reminants of the clan driven out of the CRM. They're frustrated and defeated, knowing that they aren't even close to numerous enough to try to retake their homeland, and very bitter about it. They're too few to challenge the large Orc tribe, too few to challenge the CRM, and too poor from all their losses to try to pack up and abandon what little foothold they have left here in Rastor.
As for information, that's hard to say. I'm operating on the idea that the dwarves had only mined about halfway 'round the Crater in their own time (leave the PCs some surprise), and that there's "only one way in, 'round west". Let the PCs be surprised to discover it goes full-round, and that there's two ways in and out.
Right now, my Sunday group has promised Rerrik that they'll do everything in their power to find the lost relics of Moradin and return them. Should prove interesting. If the PCs ever do find the shrine, clear it (and the surrounding caves) out, and do some convincing RP (perhaps solving the Tanbrosh epidemic), I might have the dwarves of Rastor move out and take up residence, through the secret door, in the temple complex and provide the PCs an in-house safe place to go in the CRM.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
Thrommel
Registered User
(2/27/02 9:37 am)
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Re: A few questions.....
The thread on the obelisk is here: pub58.ezboard.com/fokayyo...=787.topic
What else can the party find out? Well, honestly, that's up to you. Your party has a LOT of info on what's going on.
Keep in mind a few things:
-The cult has a LOW profile. If anyone powerful had any idea what was really going on up in the CRM, it would be raining paladins in the Lortmil mountains.
-The cultists are NUTS. Tharizdun worship is hard on the old Wis score. The ensuing confusion helps shield the true intentions of the doomdreamers. (I.e., feel free to hand out conflicting information.)
-The plan is kept under pretty tight wraps. There are only a few people who know the whole plan, and most of them are members of the Fane (like Dunrat). The CRM forces are just a buffer zone to help keep meddling outsiders away from the business of the Fane. I don't know if I would have ruled that Gren knew about the excavations, etc. The doomdreamers really are an aloof, secretive bunch.
So, personally, I would be loathe to tell them much more about what's going on. You're only at the moathouse and there's a long way to go. The party is in danger of heading straight to the Ruined Temple and trying to disrupt the excavations. If you use the excavation force as written, they are dead.
The cult is shrouded in enough mystery that you can legitimately feed them several red herrings and let them puzzle it out. I'd probably let them have some real background info on the original Temple. That may be confusing right there. ("What do Iuz and Zuggtmoy have to do with Tharizdun??")
If you want some excellent handouts, I recommend Scott Driver's site: web.mountain.net/~csdriver/toee.html
Also, Dark Theatre is a good resource: www.darktheatre.net/dnd/index.php
I don't mean to suggest that you shouldn't reward your players for capturing and interrogating the cultists. Kudos to them, because all my parties have blindly hacked everyone down. But, there's a lot of module here. I would be cautious about revealing all the mysteries in the first chapter.
-Thrommel, who enjoys his red herring with a little dijon mustard.
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DM Dan76
Registered User
(2/27/02 10:41 am)
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Re: A few questions.....
Thanks for the replys.
I figure that I have told them enough for now and that they will learn nothing in Verbobonc that they don't already know. The reason that they traveled to verbobonc was to have their characters resurected, not raised. 2 of the PC's were standing on the second platform waiting for the other group to lower themselves down. The grell decided to have a snack and few in. The Dwarf fighter/cleric was paralized and in a moment of panic the Elf ranger decided that he would let go of the rope and controll the fall! Well he failed his stength check and they plummeted towards the groud.
Now thats 200' I figure and falling at 9.8m/s it would take them 7 seconds to splatdown. Being fair I gave them one last chance. The Dwarf snapped out of his paralysis and tried to grab the rope and missed, and then SPLAT.
Now I've seen some photo's of guys who jumped off of buildings and let me tell you, they are not WHOLE, as is required by raise dead. My players all agreed to that theory, and since they had quite a few magic items to sell off they headed to Verbobonc.
I had Y'dey fill them in about the previous history and even the involvement of Zuggtomy and Iuz. All they know of Tharizdun is that a very very long time ago all the gods banned together to imprison this insane god who wanted to destroy the world, and had the power to do it too! Since then there has been no news of Tharizdun and most wise people tried to erase all knowledge of him.
They don't have a clue about any of the connections yet and basically have more info than they can handle. That's why they want to do some further research and peice it all together.
And the excavation Gren mentioned to them was the excavation of the moathouse, NOT the temple. All she knew was that they were there to recover some old religious atrifacts of EEE.
I think that they know enough, and for now will let them spin their wheels in the mud with the info they have.
Also good idea about the obelisk. I'll let them try it, fail and take some damage as a "back off" type of message. If they can't figure out that 4th and 5th level characters shouldn't be messing around with something like this, then next time it will be a bigger explosion and more damage untill they get it.
Thanks
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Thrommel
Registered User
(2/27/02 11:04 am)
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Re: A few questions.....
My mistake on which excavations you were referring to. Sounds like you are in good shape. Enough info to make them hungry, not enough that they feel like they know what they're doing.
Scott Driver does have an excellent handout on the history of the original Temple. You may want to hand that over, just so they know what did happen lo these many years ago.
Ahhhh damage. Nothing provides some steady heft to the Clue Bat better than a handful of d6's...
-Thrommel, who'd get sent back to the minors if he told you his average with the Clue Bat.
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allenw01234
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(2/27/02 11:32 am)
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Re: A few questions.....
I expected my party to try to destroy the Obelisk, and figured they could do it by breaking the supporting pillar. They didn't do so, but they did destroy the ancient Tharizdun altar in the ghoul caves, which I decided would also cause the Obelisk to fall.
Of course, when it did, it reverted back to its original form, a really big Purple Worm (got the idea from Zuggtmoy being similarly transformed), which promptly started chewing its way out of the complex. This left the party, and a load of rescued commoners, in the back exit tunnel between the slowly-advancing stone-chewing Maw of Death and Utreshimon, who was waiting by the exit. They chose the Dragon, which was wise, even though they didn't know that (IMC) his sister Alteshimon was in the area as well...
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Andorax
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(2/27/02 12:01 pm)
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Re: A few questions.....
Brutal, allenw...brutal.
Another thing to consider. IMC, anyways, the excavations back at the Temple aren't even underway yet by the time the PCs first get there. There's more than enough delay between when they travel to Rastor, and muck around in the CRM.
Just have them start excavations around about when the PCs reach Rastor (the bad guys took a circutious route back to the Temple). Few PCs will come back to mess with the Temple after reaching Rastor (especially if they've already been-there, done-that).
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
DM Dan76
Registered User
(3/6/02 12:43 pm)
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Re: A few more questions.....
Instead of starting a new post, I figured I'd just continue my last post and ask new questions here.
My question this time has to do with the ettin in the Crater Ridge Mines; Marlgran, I belive is his name. Anyway, his stats indicate that he has 2 attacks with his greatclub at +12/+7.
Now does this mean he has a greatclub in each hand and on a full attack action he would take 2 swings at +12 and then 2 swings at +7?
I wasn't certain on this rule as I haven't used ettins before and I just wanted to be clear for when my players get here (they are still in the moathouse.....after 6 sessions....very thorough)
Thanks for the Help!!
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Trithereon
Registered User
(3/6/02 2:09 pm)
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Re: A few more questions.....
Because of the Extrodinary Ability: Superior Two-Weapon Fighting an Ettin does not suffer an attack or damage penalty for attacking with two weapons. The simple answer is that the basic rules for two-weapon fighting still apply. The secondary weapon only allows a single extra attack. So the greatclub attack sedquence would be +12/+7 with the primary weapon and +12 with the secondary.
However, since the Ettion has two heads then maybe it can break the normal rules for two-weapon fighting even further by allowing the Ettin both +12/+7 meleee attacks with one club and another +12/+7 with the second club. I kind of like that idea as it makes the Ettin different and more deadly.
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DM Dan76
Registered User
(3/7/02 6:33 am)
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Re: A few more questions.....
"However, since the Ettion has two heads then maybe it can break the normal rules for two-weapon fighting even further..."
That is sort of along the lines I was thinking. Each head controls the arm on it's side of the body, so each arm would get the full bonuses.
On that line of thining could, each head of the ettin take seperate character classes? Could you have a fighter/cleric ettin with the first hear being the fighter and the second head being the cleric? That could make for some really interesting ettin NPC's.
Sorry to ramble on off topic. It's just a point in the module that caught my curiosity.
Thanks again.
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Andorax
Registered User
(3/7/02 7:06 am)
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Re: A few more questions.....
Back in a VERY out-there 2nd edition campaign, my wife and I RPed a Barbarian/Psion Ettin.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
DM Dan76
Registered User
(4/3/02 6:44 am)
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Re: Boy, did I ever mess up Nulb......
I ran my group through Nulb last night and I must have had my brain switched off or somthing. I thought Wat was supposed to be a huge threat to PC's. Well, I must say, I wound up playing him really, really poorly. Dalla was just as bad, and they kicked lareths butt really good.
Now, after thinking about it afterward I realised the problem. I hadn't prepared for it. I was sure my group was going to avoid nulb and head straight for the temple ruins, so I didn't do my typical prep work.
I had no idea on Wat's abilities, his capibilities and limitations. The way I played him, he didn't even hit once! All I could do was shake my head after the game, and vow to not let that happen again.
So now for my questions...(a day late, but I still want to know).
1. Wat's attack with the ghost touch longsword. Is this a regular attack, or is it a touch attack?
2. Is using the manifest ability a free action, move equivelent or a partial? Can wat manifest and attack catching his foes flat footed and deal a sneak attack? I couldn't decern this from the description in the MM or the DMG. I didn't want to screw my players by catching them flat footed every attack and only have to make a touch attack to deal sneak attack damage. But how should have it worked?
3. When Wat is killed what happens to his ghost touch longsword? Does it just materialise and drop to the floor? Does it reappear with Wat in the 1d6 days (or whatever it is ) after he is killed? I had it drop to the ground after the players killed him, and now I'm thinking that it may have been way to generous.
thanks for your help.
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DM Dan76
Registered User
(4/3/02 6:50 am)
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Re: Boy, did I ever mess up Nulb......
O.K., heres another one that I need an answer too. (but having nothing to directly do with RttToEE)
Do you multiply str damage on a critical hit?
eg. longswrd 1d8 19-20/x2. character normaly deals 1d8+4 damage. would it then be (1d8+4)*2? I have been going with (1d8*2)+4 on crits, but from a lot of the posts I've been reading it sounds like people are multipling the str damage as well. If it does count, then would the extra damage from say a paladins smite be included? What about a rangers favored enemy bonus damage?
Thanks
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White Chocolate zZz
Registered User
(4/3/02 7:01 am)
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Re: Boy, did I ever mess up Nulb......
Hold on, they took out Lareth? What level is your group? My group's scared he could kill them several miles away if they badmouth him.
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DM Dan76
Registered User
(4/3/02 10:34 am)
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Re: yes......Lareth
They took out Lareth.
I have to give them credit on that one, because I did prepare Lareth, and they beat him down bad.
Here's what happened......
As the PC's were finishing off the encounter at the Inn Lareth heard them and from the safety of his herb shop kept an eye on them...from a distance. After the PC's were done at the Inn, the PC's had a great idea to root out hte evil in town. They had Xaod (now a PC) slowly ride up and down the streets in town using his detect evil ability. Well, lareth is evil and pinged out on the old evil radar, even though he was trying to avoid the PCs.
They surrounded the herb shop and prepared a tactical strike. They thought it was another ghost at first, and the Cleric and Xaod rushed in the front room. I had Lareth in the center room and when he heard them come in he poliely asked them to leave. Well, after a short question period they found out who he was (which made a few of the PC's faces turn white) and why he was holed up in Nulb. Lareth then decided he had enough of these Intuders and first cast sanctuary. He had already cast sheild of faith earlier. Once the PC's heard him start to cast they all ruched in.
My plan was that sancuary would hold back most of the group while he powered up with a few other choice spell. Well all but one PC made the DC17 will save, and quickly swarmed him. They have this tactic where they gang grapple enemy clerics and then one of them does a coup de grace.
Well, they wern't able to grapple him, but a tanglefoot bag and a few really bad saving throws on Lareths part spelled the end of him.
I was not too pleased with my rolls that night. The entire night I think I only rolled twice above 10 on my d20's. Not so good a night for me......
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TrinityDM
Registered User
(4/3/02 7:37 pm)
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Re: yes......Lareth
Cheer up, Dan... if the PC's faces went white when first encountering Lareth, think of their reaction when they encounter him again later after they've killed him! 
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Altanira
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(4/3/02 10:26 pm)
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Re: yes......Lareth
1) Ettins have the attack they're supposed to get listed in their MM stat block. They attack at +12/+7 with each club.
2) You multiply str damage on a crit. You multiply enhancement bonus on a crit. You don't multiply anything else. Ground rule: If it's a +n, you multiply. If it's a +ndx, you don't.
Geriatric Jerry is all of Creation, all of Creation, Creation, Boo |
madfox
Registered User
(4/3/02 11:08 pm)
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Re: yes......Lareth
Let me clarify Altanira's reply concerning criticals. When a character scores a critical, you multiply all the non-dice modifiers on the damage. Any extra damage done through extra dice, e.g. sneak attack or energy damage, is not multiplied.
A few examples:
* Fighter, str 16, specialized in longsword: crit dmg 2d8+10
* Same fighter as above, long sword +2 of flames: crit damage 2d8+14+1d6
* Rogue, str 12, while sneak attacking using short sword +1: crit damage 2d6+4+(sneak attack)
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DM Dan76
Registered User
(4/23/02 5:29 am)
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Re: Another question
My next question is regarding experience points and PC death.
My group fought the temple forces last night and two of them were killed in the middle of the huge battle. Danford, the fighter/cleric was close to gaining level 6. Ranx, the fighter/theif was low 6th level.
Now I know that since these characters were present during the battle they receive their full share of xp for the monsters fought. The question is wether they receive the xp before they die (lose the level), or after they are raised.
If they receive the xp BEFORE they are brought back, then Danford will have reached 6th level, and thus be raised at mid 5th level; Ranx will be raised at mid 5th as well.
If they receive the xp AFTER they are raised, then Danford will be at low 5th level (they received enough xp to bring him back over 5th), and Ranx will be at high 5th level.
Which way is it?
Thanks,
Dan
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madfox
Registered User
(4/23/02 5:44 am)
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Re: Another question
As far as I know they should receive the xp BEFORE being raised. In most cases this is beneficial, since if they level due to this xp they will in effect remain of the same level as before death. Only when you receive enough xp to reach next level after having lost a level, will it be against the PCs. But how often do you gain such amounts of xp?
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Andorax
Registered User
(4/23/02 6:29 am)
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Re: Another question
I've always applied it as XP awarded BEFORE raising...it was earned then.
Then again, you also have to keep a separate track of anything killed after they go down (I usually let them have the encounter, for accounting sake). You don't get XP lying around dead...but you don't suck up a share of it either.
"Whadda ya mean, Orcs get levels too?!?" |
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