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MaxxErnst
A local, not looking for any trouble
(9/17/02 2:18 pm)
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Re: How should I deal with this...
I'm notorious for not using the majority of the rules as presented, and can't give any direct quote from the text or anything...but I would just rule that the SR and Damage Reduction are not dispelled. The rational behind my opinion is that the SR and DR are basically inherent to the creature's make-up or physiology (like my ability to run off at the mouth about almost nothing at all). To dispel this is kind of like dispelling your ability to count or tell time.

I'm sure there are spells that could do this (maybe antimagic field? again, not sure on the exact text from the rule book), but not, IMO, Dispel Magic.

Hope this helps, but I'm sure you will get more astute answers from someone more conversant with the actual rules...my group is pretty freeform.

Siobharek 
Orc
(9/18/02 12:24 am)
Reply
Re: How should I deal with this...
I don't have the PHB with me, but just before the spell lists there is a discussion of Extraordinary, Supernatural, and Spell-like abilities. I'm pretty sure that it says there what can be dispelled and what can't. Otherwise, there's a table in the DMG that will help you out.

Sorry, it's not to give you a RTFM answer, but I know that you can find the answer in either of the 2 books. Hope it helps just a little.

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

DM Dan76
Pie
(9/18/02 6:32 pm)
Reply
thanks
Thanks for the help.
After much searching I found what I was looking for.

DM Dan76
Pie
(9/19/02 5:27 am)
Reply
Re: Attack on the Fire Temple
I'm planning to have the water temple attack the fire temple very soon. The PC's have just wiped out the northern bridge complex and Riu Lotas escaped to the water temple. The water temple views the PC's as a perfect weapon to use against the fire temple, and will offer them a deal.

I will have Nilbool, Riu Lotas and 4 Kuo toa escort the PC's to the fire temple and help with the attack. Nilbool will use the disintegrate scroll against the alter and then get the heck out of there using the scroll of Recall, leaving the 4 warriors and Riu Lotas to help the PC's fight the fire temple.

Now my questions are as follows;

1) What should the water temple use to bribe the PC's into helping them. What are some good ways of getting them to take part in this attack, keeping in mind that there is a paladin in the group (Xaod). There are 2 other CG characters, and the rest are CN IIRC.

2) I'm not to clear on what happens if the fire alter is destroyed, or even exactly how much of it gets destroyed in the blast. I know I've read that the spell won't be able to destroy the entire mass, so what exactly does Nilbool aim for?

3) Who should be in the fire temple when this assult takes place? Tessimon will be there for sure, but who else will be in the room at the time?

Thanks for all of your help. It's always useful and appreciated.

Siobharek 
Orc
(9/19/02 5:44 am)
Reply
Re: Attack on the Fire Temple
Heh, my group actually sought out the Water Temple offering them help, so I'm looking forward to the answers here.

1) I honestly haven't got a clue. You might say that the Temple of Water - who isn't really in on the Fane's plans - could play a dangerous game by promising the party information on how to get into the Fanes. Maybe they could lie about having captured a holy sword. Or claim that the Temple of Fire has taken someone dear to the PCs.

2) According to the SRD on disintegrate:
Quote:
Up to a 10-foot cube of nonliving matter is affected, so the spell disintegrates only part of any very large object or structure targeted. The ray affects even magical matter or energy of a magical nature, such as Bigby’s forceful hand or a wall of force, but not a globe of invulnerability or an antimagic field. A creature or object that makes a successful Fortitude save is only partially affected. It takes 5d6 points of damage instead of disintegrating.
Depending on the altar's number of hit points (which escapes me ftm), the altar's fscked either way. I'd definitely say that if part of the altar is disintegrated, it goes down.

3) Tessimon will be alone in the Fire Temple, unless she hears the fight between the PCs and the salamanders. If she hears, then the burning skeletons will be there, along with either of the following:
Firre
Zert
Skassik the salamander
Virith and the warriors
Arlainth the sorcerer

When is your game? If it's before Oct 6th, I'd like to hear how your fight turned out, please. TIA

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

DM Dan76
Pie
(9/24/02 5:11 am)
Reply
Things don't always go as planned
Well, Riu Lotas made the offer to the PC's on behalf of the water temple, but it looks as though they are not going to accept it. If it were not for Xaod they might, but he is dead set against it.

Anyway, they are planning to approach Riu Lotas (in the guise of accepting the deal) and attempt to capture him for later interigation.

I want the water temple to be ready for this, since they offered the deal to the PC's and they took a day to think it over. They will be prepared for the PC's to refuse their offer and attack them.

My question is what are some good tactics for the water temple to use? The meeting place for the parley is just past the hag pool (whom the PC's just killed quite easily) where the two tunnels split off in the two directions.

I was thinking of having Riu Lotas use his project image ability to make it appear that he is at the meeeting place. Kadiss and Nilbool will both be invisible, waiting to ulease fireballs and lightning bolts if things go bad.
But what else should I have prepared? These PC's have walked over everything so far, and I do want to give them a bit of a challange here.

Thanks for any input you guys (and gals) may have.

Thrommel
The DM
(9/24/02 8:38 am)
Reply
Re: Things don't always go as planned
I would put a major assault force of Kuo-Toa hiding in the pool in 190. If necessary, have them wait in 190A until the negotiations start.

Their signal to attack will be the fireballs.

Unless your party has a lot of fly spells, they will be surrounded with no escape.

You can manage the encounter challenge a little bit by limiting the number of kuo-toa. (Maybe they aren't real cooperative with Kelashein's scheme.)

-Thrommel, who was tempted to launch into the Godzilla Cartoon theme song, but managed to restrain himself.

DM Dan76
Pie
(10/1/02 5:40 am)
Reply
Re: Things don't always go as planned
As I've said before, things don't always go as planned.

I was all prepared for the PC's to attack the water temple last night and what do they do? They decide to turn around and explore a new area! They decide to go back to the main gates and head left into the mines.

Those guys sure know how to throw me a curve ball.

But it did all work out in the end. I had been prepared for that area since they entered the mines. They made their way up to Varanthis and defeated him and the garillion, although Varanthis did manage to escape.

So I figure Varanthis will run into the Kuo-toa in that area (Moolowik?) and join forces with the water temple. He can take the lair of the sea hag the PC's defeated earlier.

Won't that be a nice surprise for the PC's when they return!

Siobharek 
Orc
(10/1/02 10:14 am)
Reply
Re: Things don't always go as planned
Yeah... It's almost a pity they kicked Vranthis' scaly derriére. In one of The Lost Threads, someone suggested that Vranthis (with his high Knowledge [Religion] score) was actually there because he wanted to prevent the doomdreamers from succeeding.

But yeah, he'll practically get the run of the place if the water temple manages to recruit him. Sounds good, too.

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

DM Dan76
Pie
(10/2/02 6:27 am)
Reply
Oh great ones....
I need to pick your minds here for a second.

I've decided to check to see if any of the magic items my PC's have were intelligent or not (something I never did before).

Luckly only one turned out to be intelligent. It is a +1 Keen scimitar of elven make.

My question....what would be a cool name for it? I've searched through my resourses and couldn't find anything, and I can't think of anything cool enough.

So what about it? Any suggestions?


Thanks.

Taxman66
Pie
(10/2/02 6:58 am)
Reply
Re: Oh great ones....
Well first what ability does it have?

Then think of a reason why it was made in the first place. You have already stated that it is 'elven' so why would an make or have made such a weapon. Was it a druid? Or is it more like a sabre weilded bye either a horseman (horseelf?) or perhaps it is closer to a cutlass wielded by an elven naval captain?

Given the function of the weapon, who was responsible for making the weapon, and the reason the weapon was made should provide plenty of good naming themes.

Taxman
"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin

DM Dan76
Pie
(10/23/02 1:07 pm)
Reply
A question on spring attack
This is a rules question, but since everyone on this board gives great advice I'll just ask it here.

One of my characters has the spring attack feat. He loves using it, and I'll admit that it is a nice ability.

Now here is my question. How do creatures with a 10'+ reach deal with these spring attackers?

The feat states that the attacker does not draw an attack of oportunity for moving in,attacking and then moving out. Makes sense with creatures with a 5' reach, but I cannot see it against a creature with a 10' reach.

What about when this guy starts attacking things with a 15' reach, or Imix's 20' reach?

I doubt very much that the creature would just stand there while this PC skips on in, attacks him, and then skips away again.

I know that to obtain spring attack you need to take a couple other feats, and therefore is a "powerful" feat, but I do not personally think that it should be that powerful.

How does everyone else treat spring attack? Should I make a house rule to "fix" this?

Thanks as always.

deafdungeonmasterRIT
Pie
(10/23/02 5:50 pm)
Reply
Hmm
How will Hedrack reacts to the invasion of Fire Temple?

How will he react if they won or lose?

madfox
Orc
(10/23/02 11:13 pm)
Reply
Re: Hmm
With spring attack you do not draw AOO even from creatures with reach. This might sound like a powerful ability, but it really is not. First of all, the character loses his full attack ability. While not too much of a problem at low levels at higher levels this can be a serious deterrant to use spring attack much. Second of all, spring attack can only be done in combination with one move. So unless the character has got extra-ordinary speed the opponent will be able to charge back without difficulty. While this is not entirely uncommon, a charge in theory could be combined with a tumble check, so characters with high speed (monks) really do not need spring attack anymore. Thirdly, there is an easy tactic against this and it is called ready action combined with trip attack or grapple. Another good defense would be to place two creatures with reach next to each other. Spring attack only negates the AOO from the victim not of the person standing next to him.

Quote:
How will Hedrack reacts to the invasion of Fire Temple?
How will he react if they won or lose?


That would depend entirely on how thorough the Water Temple and PCs are and how obviously the involvement of the PCs are. When the PCs keep a low profile and the Fire Temple is not completely eridicated, I doubt Hedrack would care. Tough luck, the Fire Temple should have had better defensive measurements. The risks for the Water Temple are not from Hedrack but from the Fire Temple. If the attack fails after all the Water Temple looses valuable resources and the Fire Temple would know who attacked them. Since the Fire Temple is stronger then the Water Temple this holds some risks for the Water Temple (besides the Fire Temple could always go for the more subtle road of arranging an assassination of the ruling cleric of the Water Temple whoes hold on power is not too strong anyway). The Water Temple would also loose considerable prestige.

Then again, you could also treat it as a drow thing. When a house attacks another house and succeeds there will be no direct punishment. After all, the destroyed house obviously had lost favour with Lloth. If they failed though all the other houses would react in full force because the attacking house obviously had lost favour with Lloth. Perhaps loosing will open the Water Temple to attacks from all sides because they have proven to be ineffective?

I also mention the pressence of the PCs, because then Hedracks reaction is of course also dependend on what he knows about them. If these PCs already destroyed one or two temples, then they have become a real danger. He will react as described in the adventure by scrying on them and sending in the assassins. He might even assassinate the leader of the Water Temple for cooperating with hostile outside forces, though he might also decide that to be a bad idea because it makes the Water Temple loose power. I am not sure that would happen though, since the kuo-toa don't like their current leader anyway.

DM Dan76
Pie
(10/29/02 6:16 am)
Reply
Re: A fire question...
Alright my group just defeated the Western Bridge complex, and boy was it a close one.

They have found out the hard way that monsters with regeneration can be a real pain in the backside.

They are planning on throwing the 2 trolls (krall & slazzh) and D'Gran into the raptor room along with as much flammable material they can find. Add a few pints of oil, and problem solved right?

Well this brings up a few questions in my mind.
1 - How much damage dose a pint of buring oil inflict? How long does it burn for?

Now that may take care of the Trolls, but not D'Gran right?

2 - From what I've read, the only way to surely kill D'Gran is to weight him down, and drown him. So he can die from suffocation. I know that I'll get the argument that in a confined space a large burning fire will consume all the oxygen, and any occupant resistant to fire would still die of smoke inhilation, or suffocation. Does that make sense to anyone?

3 - The orcs that are between the western bridge and the air temple. Where did the flee from? Did the western bridge try to incorporate them, or was it the air temple? Which way did they come into the mines? I know these will be questions my PC's ask.

4 - The female halfling prisoner, Descritad. It states that she was a cohort of D'Gran. Did she actually work for the cult then? What parts of the mines would she be knowagable of, aside from the Bridge Complex and the Air Temple/South Gate?
What other big names would she be aware of?

Thanks for the help!

Siobharek 
Orc
(10/29/02 7:19 am)
Reply
Re: A fire question...
Burning oil:

You might want to use the alchemist's fire stats: 2 rds, 3d6 fire damage, IIRC. If you rule that a.f. and oil aren't the same, maybe reduce the die to d4.

I don't think any room in the dungeon is airtight, so there might be some air for the critters to breathe. However, it sounds like your players have thought a while, so I'd think it would be perfectly legitimate to rule that a room full of flammable materials will kill off the trolls.

Haven't we also established that if D'Gran is knocked out, decapitated and held down for 10 minutes, he dies (I think so, but can't remember).

The orcs and Descritad... Ugh, I'm gonna need my adventure for those. Maybe someone will beat me to it. (Shameless plug: Have you considered replacing the orcs with a lab, designed to create shockers for the lightning towers? You'll find it in the Best of the Boards)

Siobharek
...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

DM Dan76
Pie
(11/5/02 8:42 am)
Reply
Re: Another Question....
I have a question about Paladins mounts.
The group's paladin (Xaod) had a Rhinocerous mount that was killed last session by Krall and Slazzh at the Western Bridge Complex.

The player really wants his rhino back and the party plans on trying to raise it, since the partys cleric is only 600 xp from 9th level.

My question is, CAN a special mount be brought back with raise dead? If so, how do you work the lost level, since most of their abilities are based on the paladins level? Would it work as if the mount had a level drained?

Also, another of my players brought this question to me. He is a druid, and after looking through his spell list he asked if he could use the 0 level spell create water to attack fire elementals with? I have no idea if that would be a legitimate method of attack, or if it would inflict damage to a fire elemental. How would you guys (and gals) rule that one?

Thanks in advance.

Edited by: DM Dan76 at: 11/5/02 12:41:19 pm
ronin
Pie
(11/5/02 12:50 pm)
Reply
re: question
A mount can be brought back with raise dead and it does not suffer a level loss as a PC would. The paladin in my campaign did this exact same thing in fact and it surprised all of us that it was so easy to accomplish.

I know this is discussed in one of the books but I dont recall which book. If no one else posts an answer I'll check when I get home tonight from work.

As far as the create water question.... I wouldn't allow it to do damage. If I did I wouldn't allow it to be alot of damage since it is only a 0 level spell. Maybe a point for every so many gallons, the rest evaporates.

Just my own thoughts on the matter.

ronin

Zagig
Pie
(11/5/02 1:46 pm)
Reply
Re: re: question
On the create water question, let him try it. I don't think that you should be telling players OOC whether a spell would work against a certain creature. However, if he does try it, I think that all of the water would evaporate before hitting the elemental. This could create a large steam cloud in the area which would obscure vision somewhat (probably only 25% cover).

Actually, now that I think about it, this is a really cool idea for some of the villians in the Fire Temple. If they need cover for some reason, cast create water on an elemental to create a huge steam cloud that provides a little cover. The cloud would probably only last one round, so it would probably be a last resort kind of idea.

Zag:rollin ig

ronin
Pie
(11/5/02 4:51 pm)
Reply
re: question
After getting home and checking a couple of books I see that it is the familiar of a wizard or sorcerer that can be raised with no level loss. This is under the sorcerer entry in the PHB under the familiar entry. It is the last few sentences that give you the information.

I did allow this with the paladin's mount however as they are also considered magical beasts. This is my own interpretation though since it is not stated the same as it is for familiars under the special mount entry for paladins.

ronin

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