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Here for a while
(3/14/03 7:33 am)
Re: Should I or shouldn't I....
I don't see Heddy giving Thrommel any more power unless absolutely necessary.

If you really, really insist on doing this, it might be better to assume that Hedrack was able to obtain a scroll of Create Greater Undead at 18th level.

"It takes an uncommon mind to think of these things, Hobbes." - Calvin

Can't leave now (mod)
(3/14/03 7:48 am)
Re: Should I or shouldn't I....
Nobody trusts me. Not even me!

I agree, Thrommel is a big unknown to the cultists. And while the chaos he could cause might be thrilling for the Doomdreamers, Hedrack is too cautious to let him have any kind of power.

I say, if you want to bring the guy back, you could raise him and put him through The Machine.

(This brings up the whole issue of raising being a voluntary process -- Jeffrey would have to WANT to come back knowing that it was a cleric of Tharizdun doing it.)

If nothing else, use the Create Undead spell to bring him back as a ghast and use Monte's ghast template on him. That should make things interesting.

-Thrommel, big unknown - as in: you never know when he's going to post!

DM Dan76
Here for a while
(3/15/03 8:21 am)
Re: Should I or shouldn't I....
Alright, I won't let Thrommel turn him into a vampire. I too had time to think about it, and have decided against it. If I did send Jeffrey out as a vampire, it would take away from the "Holly's a vampire" when the meet Thrommel, and I wouldn't want to do that.

I will check out the book of vile darkness for some ideas, and worst case, I turn him into a ghast.

I do agree that raising is a voluntary thing, hence the reason Jeffrey did not come back when the party attempted to raise him. I do feel that the character was on the road to evil, and given the chance to come back and hurt his old friends would be welcome.

Thanks again.

Here for a while
(3/15/03 11:50 am)
should/ shouldn't?
One thing you do have on your side Dan is that good ole Jeffrey has a grudge against the PCs. No matter how he comes back he may try to deviate from whatever plan is laid out before him and attempt to mess with the PCs using his own agenda.

To me this means you have a bit of latitude with Jeffrey's actions. He may not want to "sneak up" on the PCs, that may not be humiliating enough for him. The way he died was very humiliating IMO and if I were him I would want to bring that back tenfold to my former party members.

Just a thought. Good luck.


Here to stay
(3/15/03 3:53 pm)
Suppose that a chaotic evil player get demon stone.. then what happens?

Still here? Wow.
(3/15/03 11:01 pm)
Re: Hmm
My guess is that the chaotic evil PC - which I honestly can't envision in a party unles the players messs up and plays CN or NE in stead - will lose any inhibitions and just become exactly as sadistic and homicidal as outlined in the module.

Siobharek is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

DM Dan76
Here for a while
(3/16/03 9:55 am)
Re: Hmm
Well here is what I have done.

Ukemil took the corpse to Hedrack, thinking that Hedrack may be able to use it some how. Hedrack then turned Jeffrey's Corpse into a Corpse Creature (from the book of vile darkness). I figured that the corpse creature was about the same power level as a ghast, so Hedrack could create it with create undead.

I'm not sure if this works, but I then had Hedrack take Jeffrey to the Machine and toss him in, giving him a demonic leg (the one that adds +10' movement).

Jeffrey will then head down to rastor the following night and hunt the PC's.

I am actually leaving the details up to Jeffrey's player, Jeff (I know, not too original on his character name). Jeff was thinking of quiting the group ever since the party killed off his character. I've decided to let him help me run encouters. Last session his newest PC was killed by the water elemental in the water temple, so it is a good opportunity for him to come to my side of the table. I see it more fitting for him to play out his revenge on the other PC's, since he has the grudge.

Thanks for the help.

Still here? Wow.
(3/16/03 10:24 am)
Re: Hmm
Just be careful. You are walking a very thin line here and you risk pissing off all the other players. Generally, the loss of one is a good sacrifice over the loss of many. They may see you siding with Jeff and causing him to kill all their PC's in the event of catastrophic success by Jeff. Unlike you, his goal is revenge and not fun for all.

DM Dan76
Here for a while
(3/22/03 10:26 am)
Recap....and another "rules" question
Well things went fine with bringing in an old PC as an undead villian. I ended up playing the undead Jeffrey, mainly because the player Jeff, couldn't make it to the game.

All the players had a great time fighting their old team mate and they all had a blast. Well everyone except the party druid, who at the time was out in the wilderness looking for a new animal companion.

Well he found one, and as luck had it that night it was another dire lion. He cast animal friendship and I rolled a 1 one the lions Will save. So I thought no big deal, another lion. Then the druid pulled an unexpected move on me. He announced he was going to Awaken it. A full day of spellcasting later......and i roll another 1 on it's saving throw! I suppose it was meant to be.

So now my question. Does the Awakened lion, now an intelligent creature, get a share of the group xp? Does it count as another character? Does it get a share of the treasure? I know the party won't want to split the xp any more than it has to, and will get ticked if they have to share their loot as well. I'm not sure what to do in this situation.

Thanks for the help.

Still here? Wow.
(3/22/03 11:24 am)
Re: Recap....and another "rules" question
The lion doesn't advance as such, does it? I mean, does it take a class or gain additional HD? If not, then I don't see why it should gain XP.

However, if I were you, I'd devise a system where the player/PC could devote experience to the lion and through the bond that is there friendship, give the lion additional power.

Siobharek is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

DM Dan76
Here for a while
(4/15/03 6:25 pm)
Water temple tactics
Well I don't need to worry about the Awakened Dire Lion anymore. He along with Crank, the half-orc barbarian were killed in the groups raid on the water temple last night. Two other PC's were into the negitive hit points before the group fled....and they only did so at my mercy.

I think that I may have stacked the water temple a little much, and I would like your opinions.

Here are the water temple forces as they stand after last night.
- Keleshien
- Nibool
- Kadiss
- Oomkaan
- Urlrug
- Moolowik
- the Water Elemental
- the chuul from the water bridge (dock)
- Vranthis
- the 3 advanced skum
- 5 kuo-toa Ftr1

Now the reason the additional forces are there.
- the PC's beat the snot out of vranthis and he barely got away with his life. As he fled he ran into Moolowik, who thought that Vranthis would make a good ally for the water temple. Vranthis thought it would be a good place to lay low while he healed up enough to get revenge on the PC's.
- the chuul from the water bridge (dock) was recalled to the water temple by Oomkaan after the PC's made their first assult on the water temple. They never made it past the water elemental, but the temple forces wanted to pull in their forces and sink into a defensive position.

Well now I'm re-thinking my actions. The group has now made 2 attempts at hte water temple. The first time they lost one PC (the half-orc barbarian) and almost defeated the water elemental, but both sides fled. This last time they got thumped big time. 2 dead, 2 downed. They delt a combined 107 point of damage to the water temple forces and only managed to kill one kuo-toa ftr1. The temple forces delt out 750+ damage to the PC's, and still had lots left to dish out.
I even had nibool cast a defensive spell when he could have killed off 2 more PC's with a lightning bolt.

Now do you think that I have amassed too powerful of a force here?
So far the PC's have only attempted the frontal assult approach, which has given the temple forces time to buff up before the PC's ever got to the temple itself. They are thinking of attempting a more assassination like attack next time. They figure to scry on the preistess, and then teleport in beside her. A round with almost everyone hasted and concentrating their attack on her should kill her they figure. They then grab her body and teleport back out. They figure that a few days of that and they should eliminate all of the maic users.

So, should I weaken my forces, or should I let the group try their assassination plan. If I weaken the temple forces they will know I'm doing it on purpose and may feel cheated by it. I have given them an enemy than has now beaten them down twice, and they are all excited about the challange. I don't want to dissapoint them, but neither do I want to have a TPK.

Your thoughts?

Edited by: DM Dan76 at: 4/15/03 6:26:01 pm
DM Dan76
Here for a while
(5/1/03 4:20 pm)
This may seem like a stupid question, but I think I'm using scry all wrong.

When using scry, does the caster get audio as well as visual? Can he hear what the people he is looking at are saying?

After reading the spell description it does say "You can see and hear some creature......" and it leads me to think that yes, you can hear the person you are scrying on, but what about anyone else in the area?

All this time I just had scry act as visual only without any sound, but I do belive I am dead wrong.


P.S. I know this is a rules question, but frankly htis is the only message board I ever visit.....there is just no need to go elsewhere with all the great help that is to be found here!

Can't leave now (mod)
(5/1/03 4:50 pm)
Re: Scrying
{P.S. I know this is a rules question, but frankly htis is the only message board I ever visit.....there is just no need to go elsewhere with all the great help that is to be found here! }

Must... resist... urge to... move... thread...

Seriously though, guys -- there's a reason I ask that people purely rules questions in the Rules forum. For one, you really do get answers there that are just as good.

More important, this is a unique place where DM's can get together and exchange ideas in a spoiler-intensive environment. There's really no other resource like it anywhere. There's plenty of places where you can get rules advice -- there's only ONE place where you can discuss RttToEE. Let's try to keep it that way.

Since this thread is a mix of rules & campaign log, I'm going to let it ride. But keep in mind that in the future pure rules questions will likely get shunted over to the appropriate forum.


DM Dan76
(7/15/03 8:17 am)
Is my group in for some trouble?
Hi all,

My group has finally cleared out the CRM and wiped out about 2/3 of the outer fane. They made contact with Varachan and he gave them all the info needed to defeat the Doomdreamers plan. They cleared out Hedracks chambers and with all the arrows pointing towards the recovered temple they teleported back to Hommlet.

Left alive are Hedrack, Thrommel, Varachan, and the Annis Hag in the prison, as well as the 2 invisible stalkers and some ogre and human guards.

Back in Hommlet they met with all the important people (Rufus, Burne, Y'Dey, "Jaroo", etc. and exchanged information.

Now since they only took out about half the outer fane before heading back to Hommlet I am worried that they may be underpowered for what is about to come.

As of last night here is the group

Snaggletooth - 1/2 Orc Cleric 11 (strength and travel domains)
Oskar - Dwarf Druid 11 (no current animal compainions)
Xaod - Human Paladin 11 (with a rhino mount)
Danford - Dwarf Cleric of St. Cuthbert 5 / Fighter 4
Ranx - Halfling Fighter 2 / Rouge 9
Feiwyn - Elf Sorceress 9
Ivona - Elf Fighter 1 / Ranger 7 / Deep Woods Sniper 2

There are seven of them, but as you can see they are lacking in arcane spell casters. I'm not sure if that will hurt them in the recovered temple or not.

If needed Elmo and Ingrith have volunteered to go with them, but I am not sure if the group needs them or not.

Does this group as it is, without NPC help, stand a fighting chance at the recovered temple?

Runechild (mod)
Council of Magisters

(7/16/03 9:06 am)
Re: Is my group in for some trouble?
Actually, they seem extraordinarily light on the healing end of things.

I'd say they can tackle it, just don't sharpen up any of the encounters. Run things as written, if not a little bit 'looser'.

Maybe the giants are sick of being ordered around because the DD's are making them work overtime. The DD's are nervously trying to get the recovery done as quickly as possible. They can see the goal in sight and they're getting impatient.

Play Falrinth and Dugart as the cold-blooded mercenaries they are. The PC's are a doomdreamer problem, they hold back unless they're ordered to do something and they teleport out at the first sign of serious trouble.

The party will be fine as long as you don't coordinate the foes too much, or sharpen their tactics. There are plenty of reasons for them to be disorganized. Poke some holes in the plans of the DD's (like having those two DD's get killed by the purple worm) and they'll be just fine without NPC help.

Have Y'Dey give them some extra healing potions or a scroll of raise dead is my advice.

-Thrommel, who wonders if his advice qualifies as NPC help.

~Council of Magisters~
~ Arcana Unearthed ~

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